J John on the future

March 3, 2010

My friend J. John was asked by Charisma Magazine in the USA to respond to the question:What will life be like for the church in 2020? He sent me a peek at his reply and it makes for fascinating and insightful reading.


Heading towards financial, moral and social bankruptcy it is hard to be optimistic about the future of Britain. Yet amid the gloom, I see rays of encouragement and hope. My predictions?

· The continuing decline in ‘Churchianity’ will lead to a void in which a genuine Christian faith will stand out clearly.
· The current affection for hedonism, consumerism and secularism will be maintained, but there will be a growing realisation that they do not satisfy.
· While the decline of the formal, traditional, institutional churches will continue there will be significant mega-churches in all the major cities that will be the new ‘cathedrals’ and a rapid rise in small, fluid fellowships.
· As society becomes colder, more detached and increasingly virtual, the attraction of authentic, caring, Spirit-filled fellowships will be compelling.
· As ‘book culture’ wanes there will a loss of biblical knowledge that will leave the church vulnerable to fads and heresies. This will be balanced by a growth in Christians who will hold to God’s word with a new seriousness.
· The failure of ‘multicultural’ philosophy and political correctness will produce some urban areas as no-go zones for evangelism. Nevertheless, there will a growing number of Christians, churches and martyrs.

It’s not going to be boring! And God is still on His throne.

J.John
www.philotrust.com


Lindz West of Lz7 on the skills of Evangelism

February 28, 2010

Lindz from Lz7 teaching on being an effective evangelist.

Manchester is his adopted city, he is a missionary to Manchester! Sept 27th his ‘this little light’ song will be released.

The government are right behind it: ‘Shine’ campaign = film young people doing something good. Put it on the website.
Momentum is building!

He has been doing evangelism full time for ten years. Employed by Luis Palau festival to preach to their youth, some massive crowds.

But the tough stuff is When you go onto a classroom etc with his work through the Message – there are walls to be broken down

Mk 1;17

“Come, follow me,” Jesus said, “and I will make you fishers of men.

Ever been fishing!? Hard work! Chucking out the net is dirty work, and you need some skills, but ordinary people can do it.

When he did a sports science degree – he learned a definition of SKILL.

Skill is a learned ability to bring about a predetermined result with maximum certainty often with minimal outlay of time, energy or both.

So: do your work:,be prepared in advance! To be relevant to who you’re reaching.

Know your audience, be all things to all people to save some. What’s going to work best for this person?

Know your testimony. Be ready!

Break down a barrier!
Eg., body language. We communicate a massive amount non verbally.
Hand gestures: do you tend to point (aggressive) or use open hands?
If people are closed arms & legs, you need to change them from being closed.
Eye contact – use a visual sweep.

Don’t shuffle about in an uncertain way: the gospel is something you can stand on.
Stand confident in your faith.
In schools you learn at the sharp end. Any questions time!? That’s tough apologetics.
God has said to him, if you fail 7 times, get up 8 times!

When Lindz was in new York, ended up he ‘just happened’ to meet Chris Moyles. It took till 2am till the conversation turned to God. If Chris Moyles comes to Manchester, he will visit Ivy!

And it happened because the conversation turned to the opportunity.

Are you willing to be interrupted? Like Jesus was with Zaccheaus.


More blessed to give than receive

February 27, 2010

I just received a letter and picture for the fridge from one of the kids we sponsor through Compassion UK. Tucked away between the prayers for us and news of football games was this – ‘please read Acts 20:35′

Not a verse I know by heart – I looked it up. And then I found I did know it:

…remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’

I once heard of a Bishop who preached, “Jesus said – and I think he was right…’

Well, I know he’s right!

The apostle Paul knew that too and recalls in this passage words spoken by Jesus which are not recorded in any of the gospels; words that shaped the early church’s thought and practice – and helped it make such an impact! It was said of the early Christians, “They share their food but not their beds.” They were sexually pure but promiscuous in generosity!  They lived like that because they had their eyes on another destination.

Jesus said, “Store up treasures in heaven . . .” Why? Because it’s wise! Because whatever we have given to help the poor or invested in building God’s kingdom will last. It won’t be consumed by moths and rust and thieves.  But you’ll never see a hearse pulling a trailer. 

A friend of mine is an independent financial adviser. He says, “When it come to your money don’t just think just 3 days ahead, or 3 months or 3 years. Think 30 years.” Jesus Christ says, “Don’t just ask, how will this investment be paying off in thirty years. Ask, how will this investment be paying off in thirty million years?”

C. T. Studd left being England cricket captain to reach out to needy people in the mission field he famously said this…“One short life, ’twill soon be past, only what’s done for Christ will last.”

I have some bad news. I have a terminal disease! I’m going to die!

Even worse news? You have the same disease! You’re going to die too!

The disease is called mortality. One day, sooner than any of us would like to  think, we’ll each stand before our Lord, the Audience of One. He’ll call us to account for how we’ve stewarded our lives and our resources here.

If your treasures are in heaven….good news. Heaven is coming! All Hell can’t going to stop it. Anything you’ve put in God’s hands – for his work-  is safe. Anything you haven’t – isn’t going to last.

Jesus said, “Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” He’s saying, “Show me your chequebook and bank statement, I’ll show you where your heart is. Your heart follows your money.”

Want a heart for Pork Bellies? Put your money there! Want a heart for Tesco? Buy shares! Want a heart for God? A heart for what matters most to Him? A heart bigger than your next acquisition? Put your treasures where God is at work! Want a heart for your church? Invest your money in your church’s ministry. Then, put your treasures in mission work – reaching the poor. Want a heart for street kids? Invest… every day there are opportunities to buy up more shares in God’s kingdom!

Five minutes after we die, we’ll know exactly how we should have lived. But then it’ll be too late to go back and change anything! God has given us his Word so we don’t have to wait until we die to know how we should have lived. There’s no second chance for the unbeliever – AND no second chance for the believer!

You and I have one short life on earth to invest in heaven. Let’s not miss the opportunity! Here’s a great prayer: May what will be most important to me five minutes after I die, become most important to me now.

Alfred Nobel, a Swedish chemist, made his fortune by inventing dynamite and other powerful explosives. When Nobel’s younger brother died in an experiment, a newspaper accidentally printed his obituary instead. He was described as a man who became rich from enabling people to kill each other. Shaken by this assessment, Nobel wrote a will which resolved to use his fortune to reward accomplishments that benefited humanity, including what we now know as the Nobel Peace Prize.

Nobel had a rare opportunity – to look at the assessment of his life at its end, while he still had time to change it. While we live on earth – God is so gracious- it’s the land of second chances.

Put yourself in Nobel’s place. Read your own obituary, not as written by uniformed or biased people, but as an onlooking angel might write it from heaven’s point of view. Look at it carefully. Then let’s use the rest of our lives to edit that obituary into what we really want it to be.

To live each day with the knowledge that every moment we get closer to death, we get closer to our treasures – rather than further from them.


Not a matter of prayer- a matter of faith! Arnold Muwonge

February 22, 2010

Our dear friend Arnold Muwonge spoke yesterday at Ivy Manchester.

His main text was Ruth 1.21 I went out full, I came back empty. The title was RHYTHMS OF CHANGE.
Here are my notes on what he shared ; great stuff – and see the end for an important prophetic word from Arnold.

A man he knew came from Africa, when he was at home he could smell gas, but he got used to it. It took another guy coming in to be able to alert him. When you are cooking, you may not smell how good it is: needs a stranger to come from outside to smell it.
Arnold brings an outsider’s perspective!

There are three main actors in Ruth. It’s a great story.

BOAZ - A type of Christ. His character was integral. Dependable. He is faithful, rich (psalm 24), able to help, our provider. We must learn to trust him. He gives us everything. He will always turn up. We can be confident in him. He operates according to covenant. Our salvation is based on covenant.

NAOMI - a type of Israel. Goes away from God for what she wants. But God brings her back! She goes away from God because of her insecurities. To get her needs met. Ends up where she is not to be. Goes through the wrong doors. The wrong door can take 5 mins to open, & 10 years to close. Naomi is a type of israel. She left a place where she was actually full. We forget how blessed we are. Vs 21. Thank God for life, for salvation. The grace of God which keeps you.

RUTH is a type of the church. A Moabitess. A nation founded from & conceived from terrible immorality, considered cursed to the 10th generation. A rejected bloodline! Now we find ourselves on a place where we were never meant to be. There is grace. There is nobody God cannot save!

Ruth is a book of encouragement, of survival, through all the pain; they bounce back, by the grace of God. The devil takes hold of us in times of trouble. The devil tells you, ‘you are not loved by God, but if you follow my way, I will help you.’

But pain is not always negative : it can keep people together. We think pain separates; These three women, all they had in common was their pain & struggle, it was their only story-  at the beginning. Loss. Bereavement. Whatever you go through – God still loves you! Through their pain, they stuck together. Not all pain leads to death; it can lead to redemption! We can learn through our need, to seek until we find.

God may not say what we want, instead he says, ‘Be strong! Circumstances have no anointing to change the call on your life.’

One day, Naomi woke up and said, ‘I am going back to Israel – leave me alone.’ She realised there was something shifting, she was going! In Gods timing. We have created an intellectual God. But our God is a miracle worker!

People who are moving Gods way are not necessarily bothered whether everyone else comes with them. Its not about getting a vote. They say, ‘It’s my time now to step into what the Lord is leading me into.’ We may be misunderstood when we do that, even by the ones closest to us. Cf Hannah & the priest. Rom 8:25

Orpah kissed her and decided to go her way. That’s okay. She doesnt get condemned for that. She gets a blessing. We have to be big enough to do that; If someone chooses to go, that’s okay. They are out of your story, their contribution to it has ended – but God is still writing it! He is writing it in colour. We can become bitter that someone walked out, or we can look who’s coming in!

Naomi says; “Your God will be my God.” The commitment is what God uses, to use us. Ruth makes a commitment. There are people you meet, a community, who are different, but your prophetic destiny is mapped with the people next to you in church. You are not just here because its a good church. My breakthrough is in how I connect. Plug in!

Ask God, ‘How am I to play my part in the story?’

What made Naomi want to go? She recognised Gods timing; recognising what God is doing in my life, church, family. Ask God today, ‘What are you doing?’ and join him in that.

Is there a shift, a shaking inside you? God is going to give you a kick in your pants. You have been dormant long enough! God can use you!

Ruth, who was supposed to be rejected, ends up in Jesus lineage/ story. At the end of their life, they look back and see His hand was at work. But we must take a step!

Arnold closed his talk in the second service with a prophetic word for Ivy Manchester which he said he has had for two years for us:

“You have been talking for a long time about getting a large building and praying about getting a larger building – this is no longer a matter of prayer, but a matter of FAITH! Believe God for this!”


Pastors R Us! Debra Green evening talk

February 14, 2010

Debra Green : Equipped. Pastors r us?

What is the pastor gift? Shepherding? Can mean someone with divine enabling of others, taking responsibility to model & establish trust, lead, protect those within our span of care.

We can’t abdicate caring to pastors who are paid. We all should take responsibility to respond to need.
Pastoral care; 4 things to remember- CARE

C. Compassion. It starts here! Jesus looked at the crowd and had compassion. He saw they were hungry. Went to meet the need. Went to rescue the lost sheep. Moved to reach out. In your gut, you are moved toward a need. Splancnizomai. Not just a sense of duty, it’s more powerful. Break my heart for what breaks yours. We don’t all have the same concern about the same things & that’s OK.  Sometimes we just have to get involved, being spontaneously compassionate. You don’t need permission or a word from God to do that. But bigger issues, like ’should I go to Haiti?’ we need to check that and run through a bigger filter.
A. Aid (or Action). It’s not just a fluffy feeling – go to work! Cf Good Samaritan. Lk 10. Compassion got him to cross the road. He was a neighbour because he showed mercy. He came to his Aid, a stranger! There were all kinds of reasons why we has the last to be expected to help but he was there, doing what was needed: for a stranger: Mt 25:35-40. We are doing it as unto Jesus! He receives it himself. As a church we are to extend our pastoral care beyond the walls of the church! When someone dies, what can you do? Best thing is just be there with them & be kind. Send notes. Help practically. Offer to pray, sensitively! Give them space too.
R. Relationships. Jn 19:26 Jesus is in agony on the cross, he has nothing more he can give it seems, but then he sees his mother & best friend. Says, ‘Mother- here is your son.’ thinks of them above himself. Putting people together. We have to love & care for people. The bigger the church, it’s easier for people to fall through the net. Ring the person who’s missing, tell them you missed them! Nobody will be attracted to a church where there’s no love. People long for extnded family.
E. Empathy. So much more than sympathy. It’s a rich thing. Hebrews 4:15 , says Jesus knows how we feel, fully. So, he can fully empathise with us when we struggle. You can say, ‘I know someone who is able to know how you feel.’ in fact, when you have been through something – God can use you to help others with the same or similar pain or experience. You may have wondered why God allowed it? It’s valid to ask that. But one day you see it.

How to deal well with conflict in church.
10 steps
1. Come to me privately if you have a problem with me.
2. I’ll come to you privately
3. If someone comes to you with a problem about me, send them to me
4. If someone consistently will not come to me, say, ‘let’s go together.’
5. Be careful how you interpret me, i would rather do that myself! You might not fully understand my intentions.
6. I will be careful how I interpret you
7. If its confidential, don’t tell even one petson unless it will lead to harm to someone or danger.
8. I do not read unsigned notes, don’t bother sending them.
9. I do not manipulate, I will not manipulate, don’t let anyone manipulate you to try to manipulate me.
10. If in doubt, just say it. If I can answer without misrepresenting something or breaking a confidence, I will.

Pastoral care is just caring for everyone who God brings into your world. It’s not just for the church!


Michael Ramsden: Knowing and trusting the character of God.

January 12, 2010

Michael Ramsden. Evangelists Conference.


He was converted as a child, while living in Cyprus. Knew he would have to give up everything for Christ. He loved the Bible immediately. They asked at the first Bibel study, ‘If God could give you one thing what would you want?’

His reply: “I would want to be an evangelist.” Always knew that’s what he was called and appointed to.

But there can be a performance mentality, and being judged by numbers. Retreated from that – a turning point came when he was preaching in South Africa, and at a golf club a business man had arranged an evening meal. Hoping for 60 people to come – 137 came. There were more non Christians than Christians. Afrikaans high class business types. Someone came up to him and told him the meeting was a mistake, they would not be receptive.

And that experience happened when there was complete silence to all his points, and his heart was sinking! Cold sweat! But then at the end he gave an invitation. Then cards were offered for a response.

A to E. Grade it – A = one of the best sermons you have ever heard

E = the worst. Uh-oh!

Then there were various responses. From ‘I became a Christian.’ To ‘Never invite me to an event again.’

Afterwards he was wrecked. Couldn’t sleep.

730am next day the organiser rang. He dreaded answering the phone!

46 people ticked box A – ‘I gave my life to Jesus.’

48 people ticked box B – ‘I want to go to the Bible study.’

4 ticked box E.

Weeks on, loads from box B became Christians. 2 from box E did too.

Resolved therefore… to always give people the opportunity, no matter how I feel. My feelings are not a strong basis to operate this ministry from!

It’s about trust. Trusting God.

But many Christians are not sure if they can morally trust God.

Non Christians like Dawkins would say our God is morally abhorrent. (The cross is abusive).

If you can’t know God is trustworthy – you can’t trust him.

Cf Jonah. The whole city was saved. Remarkable, you’d think that was encouraging? Mass salvation of an enemy nation. How does the preacher feel?

Chapter 4:1 – it displeased Jonah greatly – (literally gut wrenchingly exceedingly upset) and he was angry.

I sometimes get displeased that revival doesn’t come. Here it’s the other way round! Jonah hated the people he was preaching to, and he knew God was gracious and compassionate – the kind of God he was, is Jonah’s problem.

We can get angry and upset when we see people forgiven and restored. So, here’s the issue. We sometimes seem as if God’s schizophrenic: On one side loving and nice, or there’s fierce wrath.

We need to not set them in opposition to each other, but see them in the light of each other.

In Pride and Prejudice there is a scene where Mr Darcy says he loves her against his will, his better judgement and his character. (Unsurprisingly she rejects him!)

If there are some people who know you (everything- the real thing), YET they love you – those are the most valuable relationships. To be known warts and all – and loved.

True love does not exist in the absence of judgement – but in the presence of it – like in a marriage where as you get to know each other and in the face of flaws etc you healthily grow in depth, where there is love in the face of knowing you, when spoken by someone knows you.

God really knows you. Do you have emotional stability that comes from knowing that God loves you despite your flaws? (Doesn’t mean God is happy with them or that we should excuse them). He knows it.

God is not interested in covering things up. That’s not the path to true relationship.

Like when you say something stupid to a friend. Next day you go to them and apologise.

It’s great when they forgive you.

But if they say, “It’s nothing” – and walk away, and you know – it’s something! And now there is something between you. It’s not the same.

OR – we try to make up for it. We make a fuss. We serve in some way to earn the forgiveness rather than look at the problem. We no longer have real relationship. Covering up wrongdoing (in that sense) becomes a barrier to relationship.

The word Compassion – comes from ecclesiastical Latin. Means ‘With Passion.’ To make a moral judgement and be moved from the depth of your being to do something about it. You have compassion when you say, “That’s wrong – we have to DO something!”

God is a compassionate God, because he looks at the sin of the world and he is moved to step in, to go to a cross – not to cover our sins but to justify us by publicly dealing with it by God – who then seeks us out and offers us, as a gift, and then gives to us – salvation.

The message is nothing other than that while we were still sinners, he found us! He had already paid the price, he has moved! He knows exactly what we are like, and what was required. And he’s with us.

We hear the phrase, “God loves you” so much, it becomes meaningless.

God loves you because he knows who you are. He is not deluded.

So…

I don’t have to pretend to be what I’m not, with God. He already knows! It’s not helpful for God for me to be transparent with him. It’s good for me.

It also gives me transparency with others. I know I have been forgiven – because he forgave me.

There is only one basis for me to be forgiven:

If I have done wrong to someone – I should not be able to say ‘I’m forgiven’ – except and unless the other party is willing to forgive, and offers it – and through repentance I have received that forgiveness.

If that’s the case, it is not arrogant for me to say, “I am forgiven.”

We are dependent on him, his promise. God has said it! It’s dealt with. So I can be secure, whatever other insecurities I might wrestle with.

Are you totally assured as to the character of God? Are you utterly sure of him?

Are you utterly sure he really means his words of love and assurance? That he has chosen, called and loved you? That’s the reality!

Are you prepared to fail on that basis?

The basis on which I know I can fail, is that I know it’s not about me. I do and can blow it. When preaching, it’s not about how many respond etc. I am okay of others reject me on the basis that God has accepted me.

We need confidence – to trust the God who transforms lives.

In all other worldviews God can be merciful, by passing over his justice. For us, it’s not at the expense of his justice, BOTH operate together.

He then gave a few examples from some difficult places and situations he has visited. Do you REALLY believe God can reach everyone? He’s still in that business. He can change anyone.

He shared a platform with Prof John Woodbridge. He was talking about the history of revival. Challenging seminars, kept on asking, “Do you believe God could do this today?” That in very secular and sceptical places, where there is no evidence that God’s moving right now – revival can happen!


Heart check

December 7, 2009

It’s said that in ancient times, when Red Indian people visited a wise man because they were sick inside, he asked four things:
1. When in your life did you stop singing?
2. When in your life did you stop dancing?
3. When in your life did you stop being enchanted by stories, and particularly by your own story?
4. When in your life did you start being uncomfortable in silence?

Read those through again. Slowly. If you’ve been prickly recently, if you’ve found others wind you up easily… if you’ve found other people provoke you a lot- maybe you need a heart check today…


1. When in your life did you stop singing?
2. When in your life did you stop dancing?
3. When in your life did you stop being enchanted by stories, and particularly by your own story?
4. When in your life did you start being uncomfortable in silence?

The Bible says in Proverbs 4:23 “ABOVE ALL ELSE, GUARD THE HEART, FOR FROM IT FLOW THE ISSUES OF LIFE.”

Jesus said, “Out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks.” What’s coming out of your heart most often at the moment? What’s your overflow today?


Andy Hawthorne – Five types of blessing

December 2, 2009

Sketchy notes from a fantastic recent talk I heard Andy give at the Message offices

Acts 9.
Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee and Samaria enjoyed a time of peace. It was strengthened; and encouraged by the Holy Spirit, it grew in numbers, living in the fear of the Lord.

5 types of blessing there! (Count them for yourself)
Healthy things grow. Sometimes there’s pruning for growth. If it ain’t growing, do something!

Emerging church is okay, as long as it emerges! Because if we all sit around theologising while the world goes to hell… if we don’t proclaim this gospel – who else will?

How did that fivefold blessing come?
Paul hit the ground running.
Vs 19 – he went from someone who hated the church, to someone who loved the church.
Then, ‘at once’ we was preaching Jesus is Son of God, to the world.
So often new Christians are the best – don’t let anyone dampen the fire! Have we lost our first love?
All who heard him were astonished. Paul’s still a baby Christian – but he grew more and more POWERFUL. We want more power! The power of the Holy Spirit. We’re meant to move from more to more. We should be stepping into more anointing, not having the best somewhere long behind us.

That powerful kind of ministry stirs up hell. Opposition came. He had to make an unceremonious exit, in a basket.

Ends up going to Jerusalem, but they were scared of him. Wouldn’t receive him. Opposition from within is so much harder to take!If God’s people won’t have him, what will he do?

There are seasons of opposition. Paul, who went on to be arguably the greatest apostle, would have been ditched – were it not for Barnabas. PERSONAL encouragement, one to one is what people need.
By rights, Paul – the new guy, should have been bigging up the established guy. In the kingdom- it’s the other way round.

It costs NOTHING for us to be sons and daughters of encouragement.

I want to be like Barnabas, like Ananias. If we were like that, we’d live in the fivefold blessing.
By the way – Andy’s latest book, Hope Unleashed – is FANTASTIC. Preview here!


FAITH in God is reasonable. Faith in atheism is not. (John Lennox)

November 24, 2009

Notes from lecture at RZIM by John Lennox

Reasonable Faith.

When he started at Cambridge – someone said to him, ‘Oh you’re Irish, you all believe in God, and fight about him.’

He started to engage more with non believers. Has done so in unusual places. Eg communist atheism.  Russia. More recently debating eg. Hitchens and Dawkins. Comes from the conviction that Christian faith is not only helpful, but TRUE. And if we do not stand up, secularism or atheism will appear to win.

1 Peter 3.13 Can anyone really harm you for being eager to do good deeds? Even if you have to suffer for doing good things, God will bless you. So stop being afraid and don’t worry about what people might do. Honor Christ and let him be the Lord of your life. Always be ready to give an answer when someone asks you about your hope. Give a kind and respectful answer and keep your conscience clear. This way you will make people ashamed for saying bad things about your good conduct as a follower of Christ.  You are better off to obey God and suffer for doing right than to suffer for doing wrong. Christ died once for our sins. An innocent person died for those who are guilty. Christ did this to bring you to God, when his body was put to death and his spirit was made alive.

This passage’s context = FEAR! We all contend with it. Subtle, peer pressure. Looking the odd one out. Not knowing your stuff. PC.

We are told to ALWAYS be ready to give a DEFENSE.

A REASON – a logos…

In the context of fear – nevertheless, get on and do it.

Apologetics is not a subcategory of philosophy. It is just what Christians have always been supposed to be doing. To clear up misrepresentation, misunderstanding. Not just to say WHAT, but WHY. To engage with our society and give REASONS.

Number 1 reason in survey why people don’t come to church = ‘They are not answering the questions we’re asking.’

The precondition for giving a defense is not how many books you’ve read. It’s ‘in your hearts, set apart Christ as Lord.’ That requires WORK.  Sanctify him,’ set him apart.’ Then you get the courage to break through the fear. When we start doing this, we’ll get into trouble. In Acts, the gospel is on trial time and again. The apostles were put on trial. Laws these days from Europe etc are looking to outlaw anything that looks like an exclusive claim, we’ll have to contend that Jesus is THE way.

Paul’s answer when under pressure? He described how he encountered the risen Christ. He was NOT a believer, but then he met Christ. So he stands before Agrippa (who accuses him of being under the God delusion – this is not a new challenge!) and gives his testimony and then says, ‘I’m not insane, what I am saying is TRUE and REASONABLE.’ Our world resembles Paul’s world more than any other age has, politically, philosophically and socially.

FAITH in God is reasonable. Faith in atheism is not. Atheists don’t regard what they have as faith. They think faith is an evil. Dawkins damns it, ‘Faith not based in evidence, is the principle vice of any religion.’ The clamour is for the eradication of religion because it doesn’t want to look at the evidence.

The claim of new atheists goes like this:

Faith = belief nor based on evidence

Science = belief based on evidence.

Many accept that without question. But Faith can be evidence based.

We have to look at terms. Dawkins definition of faith is wrong! Oxford English Dictionary. Faith = from Fides. Trust at its heart. Pistis (Greek) = trust. Faith = “Belief = trust. Confidence. That which produces belief, evidence and trust in it.” And this is how we usually think of the word. People used to believe in banks. But they showed there is not much basis to trust them with your money. If you are going to trust anyone, you have to have evidence or you are a fool.

Faith/trust/ belief. The Question is – what’s the evidence for it?

People say, “I won’t believe anything unless you can prove it.’ But in a mathematical sense? Logical? You’ll have infinite regress. It’s ONLY available in pure maths. Nowhere else is proof in that narrow sense. Not certainty. But in ordinary life, we have trust enough to put our life on it. Cf Flying a plane. Trusting your wife.

When you leave your field of expertise, you must check with the experts. What Dawkins/ Hitchens call and dismiss as faith = what we’d call ‘Blind faith.’ And that is of course dangerous, especially when linked with autocratic religious structures.

Is the faith required by the Christian system unreasonable?

Why was gospel of John written? In order that belief can be BASED on it. These statements are based in historical reality.

Paul at Mars Hill did not offer the resurrections as PRODUCT of faith, but a REASON for it, a basis. The resurrection as a fact is the basis on which the Christian can trust in Christ as the Son of God. Not a leap in the dark, but a step into the light, based on evidence.

It’s useful to notice that we use faith followed by  THAT or IN.

Faith in my wife

Faith that London is the capital of England.

One = faith in a fact. One = in a person. You usually need more evidence to trust a person than a fact.

So as Christians we don’t just have faith in a theory, or a worldview (it is all that) but its faith in a person.  A husband on wedding day has faith enough to trust in his wife, without knowing everything. We don’t know everything about God, but we have enough to get started – and as the relationship develops, so does the trust.  Trusting in relationships is multi levelled. Shared interests, etc – multi-orbed. Faith in God is too. There is evidence of all kinds. Can be built up. So the first thing that’s wrong with thenew atheists view of faith is that wrong.

Dawkins has said in discussion with Lennox, “Atheists have no faith.” The answer to that? “So you don’t believe it then?”

Hitchens says: “Our principles are not a faith, our beliefs are not a belief.’ Hmmmm….

They put all religions in the same pot, because they are all dangerous aberrations. That’s a failure of scholarship, because it’s obvious that not all religions are the same.

One of the main accusations new atheists make is that God is communicated out of the barrel of a gun, leads to violence etc. How do we answer that?  Look at the stance of Christ. Jesus was accused of terrorism by Pilate. That’s why his trial is so important. And he was exonerated. ‘My kingdom is not of this world, otherwise my followers would fight.’ The message you can’t defend with a gun is the one where you command them to follow the Prince of peace.

They also point out the unreasonableness of Christian faith, and say atheism had nothing to do with the massacres of Stalin, Mao etc., blame everything on God and nothing on atheism. We need to know our history!  Dawkins says he cannot imagine an atheist who would bulldoze a cathedral. Well Stalin used dynamite. Beware revisionist history.

Lennox endorses David Robinson’s book ; The Dawkins letters.

Also http://www.publicchristianity.com/historians response, the new atheists are outside their area and trying to rewrite history.

Dawkins says, “We are all atheists with regard to Odin and Zeus. It’s causing no problem to be A-Woden, what’s the problem with A-theist.’  He says its a negative and so can’t harm anyone. It’s no accident that he concentrates on A-Theism, denial of God, because he has a naturalist agenda.

In terms of the unreasonableness of faith he calls in the psychologists. However, Andrew Sims (President Royal college of Psychiatry) has written, “Is faith delusional?” and states that religion doesn’t damage but greatly helps mental health!

Freud saw faith = projection of your longing for a father.

Manfred Lutz says, ‘If there is no God, the Freudian explanation is spot on. But if there is a God, Freud will also show that there is in atheism a great desire for there NOT to be a God!’  That doesn’t deal in any case with the question, ‘Is there a God or not?’ For that, we have to look at EVIDENCE.

The idea that faith does not appear in science is wrong. All scientists are believers. They have to trust. They are commited to the idea that the universe is rationally intelligible, otherwise science is useless. The one incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it is comprehensible ‘ (Einstein).

So it’s not science vs religion. It’s materialism vs theism. Dawkins wants to argue science must lead to materialism. Not so!

Some say our brains are end product of a mindless process. From that, we get beliefs. Why trust that proposition? Logically incoherent to say that. You can’t do any science until you believe there’s reasonableness. it’s that belief in God which has inspired modern science.

Ford Car or Henry Ford. Which do you believe in? Choose! (that’s what the atheists want to say)

Ford car = laws of combustion.

Ford = designer and maker.

Two different categories!

The old chestnut is, “Who created the creator?” and so on…

Well you are there thinking about a created God, by definition. You are thinking of a created being to start with.

We agree, created Gods are a delusion. (idols). But there is an ETERNAL God.

You can choose to disbelieve that there is an eternal God.

You believe the universe created you? Who created your creator?!

The materialist’s ultimate reality – mass energy created everything. We believe God did it. Look at the evidence.


Christian faith is not a state of mind, but a state of existence!

November 18, 2009

These are taken from the notes I made as I heard Michael Ramsden speak at the Faith & Fantasy conference with RZIM. Parrs Wood, Manchester. last Saturday.
(this was definitely the highlight of the day, and in my opinion unfortunately the rest of the event went downhill a bit after it.)

Christianity is rooted in reality.

Oxford English Dictionary definition of philosophy = “use argument & reason to establish reality & truth”
BUT all those words, one by one, have lost their meaning to our culture, thanks to thinkers like Kant who contended that reality is what you make it. (Cf the Matrix)
The problem with that is, you are drawing a distinction between what reality is and the way reality appears to you. If you say everything is illusion, you may as well say everything is reality.

Establishing the category of truth when people believe there’s no reality becomes very difficult. Roger Scrutin’s response? ‘When someone asks you to believe there is no truth, they are asking you not to believe them.’

Wittgenstein said reason is a mathematical game. All is nonsense. So, philosophy is ‘patent nonsense.’Philosophy has simply become argument, so all you’re left with is fantasy.
In popular imagination therefore, faith has been reduced to “believing it that which you can imagine to be true.” (Dan Brown)

Consider the work of Umberto Eco. When he wrote, The Name of the Rose – the characters believe there is a truth, and set off looking for it.
But in another of his novels, Bordellino, it’s totally different. A main character is a man who forges letters to reveal the holy grail. Later, he sets off to use the made up materials, and the king observing this says, ‘you are insane.’ Why? You are following something you imagine to be true, with no relation to reality.

That’s how people see us, Christians, these days.

All Faiths are based in Thinking, Feeling or Doing (or any combination of all three).

In some religions it’s all about a pursuit of knowledge.
In others it’s an experience of getting in touch with the Holy
Or it’s a list - do these things and it’ll all make sense.

But Christianity is not at root a system of thought to be mastered, an experience to be tasted, or doing anything.

No. But Jesus Christ came into this world as God himself. Not just to give us new thoughts, feelings, or commands (although He does all those things!). But the Christian contends ‘I know WHO I have believed…’ Not What…

Jesus claimed equality with God. He died for that claim, it was considered so blasphemous.

Our faith is all about REVELATION. Hebrews 1.2 – He’s spoken to us in his Son!

So you’re not saved by getting it intellectually, believing however many ‘impossible things before breakfast.’ You’re not saved by doing certain achievements or by having particular experiences.

Our salvation is won for us, through the person and work of Jesus. it’s about receiving and trusting Him. We receive HIM. We become a new creation. We are born again. That changes who you ARE, which will of course change how you think, feel & act!

You’re part of a new family, and adopted in that family setting you now learn how you should think, feel & act. That’s why church is so important!

God reveals himself in Christ to show:
Who God is
Who we are
What the world is

And the revelation changes us!

Christian faith is not a state of mind, but a state of existence – it’s about who you ARE!

That’s why some who have been brought up as Christians end up floundering when they meet criticism as they enter the real world without having really known him for themselves. It’s also why we aren’t very good at defending what we believe because we present it on one of those three wrong bases: Therefore -

If people think Christianity is just an opinion (it’s what you think). Well so what?

If people think it’s just what makes you happy, ‘Well I’m happy anyway, thanks.’

Or if Christianity is just being a good person. “I know Hindus and Atheists who are better Christians…’

It’s more than all those things! It’s WHO you know.

If I say “I know Mary,” there can be two elements to the statement is a statement of reality: 1) she exists. 2) She’s TRUSTworthy.

We put our trust in a God who IS, and who is TRUSTWORTHY.

You can’t put your trust in one who isn’t there.

And faith is the only legitimate response to the God who is real, and trustworthy.

Questions Ramsden posed at the end – why not respond in your comments?

1) Can you answer the question, ‘Why are you a Christian?’ (not ‘How did you become a Christian?’). The answer probably has to be something about that you know Christ and its changing you.
2) Do you present Christianity as a system of thought, or feeling, or behaviour – or is JESUS truly at the centre of the presentation? The Goal of apologetics = that people trust HIM, not us.
3) Are you confident enough of why you are a Christian to tell others? The church has lost its voice, because we think we’re going to be shot down/ made to look stupid. Do you know who you are in Christ? We are not following cleverly made up stories!

All church heresy can be traced to a reduction of Christianity into what you think, feel or do.