Filed under Prayer …

Sep 04 2011
Bible, Community, Discipleship, Football, Jesus, Manchester, Prayer, prophecy, Religion, Theology, Uncategorized

Debra Green – Mountains or Fountains

My notes from this, the first talk in our 40 Days of Ivy DNA Series: RELEVANT.

People are surprised when we as a church are normal rather than ‘religious’

Text –  John 4- the samaritan woman at the well.

1) Jesus asked – ‘Will you give me a drink?’ This is a very controversial conversation for him to have at all. He’s showing us the type of Saviour he is. He’s speaking to her in her language, about her every day life and needs. Connects with the familiar.

If we want to be relevant we need to offer and speak into what people need.

Cf Breathe City Church in Stoke- their ‘When‘ ministry: giving clothes to the poor in the city. Thousands of clothing packages given.

When we meet the felt needs of people, we’ll be relevant. We’re not relevant because the worship is great or the preaching is good: people outside of church are not even asking about that anyway!

But if we help people and connect in people in prison, in debt, when we are marked by hospitality, or playing football like our new team IVY COSMOS – it’s great fun AND an opportunity for a conversation. We don’t have to fall into the sacred/secular divide mentality.

Is there someone you can have a chat with over the water?

2) Mountain or Fountain?

The Samaritans and Jews had a lot of theological, intellectual, religious debate about worship places.

The subject isn’t a bad one. There’s a lot in the Bible about mountains – but this is a religious debate that’s really a red herring / smokescreen to get away from the real issue of life: it’s not WHERE you worship, but WHO.

She’s thinking to impress him with her religious knowledge and grasp on current affairs and debate -

But Jesus says, ‘let’s not debate Mountains – I want to talk about Fountains!’

Jesus will change the question.

It’s not about the mountain of religion

It’s about the fountain of relationship.

Her heart was getting filled in all the wrong ways.

It’s not about discussing imponderables till 3am – after that question, along comes another…

come to the fountain!

The churches that are growing are those that are not stuck in religion, and my clever arguments are not going to win people over to Christ. It’s more about making Jesus accessible.

The harvest is plentiful!

Where?

Where people are. Go where people are.

Because people are dissatisfied and needing a fountain – of living water.

Tagged , , , , , , , , ,
Aug 14 2011
Bible, Christianity, Failure, Faith, Jesus, Manchester, Prayer, Religion, TV

Jon Hancock – @jonhancock_tv at Ivy MCR – Micaiah 1 Kings 22

Here are my notes on Jon’s talk tonight, Ivy MCR Grow Groups are welcome to use them for your meetings too.

Jon Hancock is a BBC TV producer who has been at Ivy about a year, the family moved up with the Beeb move to Media City etc.

Jon talked about our journey as a church recently and the symbolism of that:
Meeting at Gorton Monastery, reclaiming that place.
Then the Trafford Centre where so many ‘worship’ every day.

NOW we’re off to the Vue Cinema near Media City: We’re moving all over the city worshipping Jesus in these strategic and symbolic places!

Please pray for this next move!! Can you provide lifts etc – contact the office please.

Study: 1 Kings 22

Micaiah

Looking at it from a TV producer point of view – this is a very interesting story…
There’s a ‘OH NO!” – Fist in mouth – ‘I can’t believe he did that’ moment in this story – look out for it.

Characters:
King Jehosophat – at heart, one of the good guys. Wanted to restore the nation back to God, but a bit weak willed

King Ahab (booo!!!). Loved to go to war a bit too much. married to Jezebel, a very bad sort.

Micaiah – this is the only time we hear of him in scripture.

1 For three years there was no war between Aram and Israel. 2 But in the third year Jehoshaphat king of Judah went down to see the king of Israel. 3 The king of Israel had said to his officials, “Don’t you know that Ramoth Gilead belongs to us and yet we are doing nothing to retake it from the king of Aram?”
4 So he asked Jehoshaphat, “Will you go with me to fight against Ramoth Gilead?”

Jehoshaphat replied to the king of Israel, “I am as you are, my people as your people, my horses as your horses.” 5 But Jehoshaphat also said to the king of Israel, “First seek the counsel of the LORD.”

Now Ahab’s desire may or may have been the right thing, but it could have just been a rush of blood. Jehosophat wants to consult God.

Ahab then called in a non – prophet organisation (Rentaprophet) who’d say what he wanted to hear.

6 So the king of Israel brought together the prophets—about four hundred men—and asked them, “Shall I go to war against Ramoth Gilead, or shall I refrain?”

“Go,” they answered, “for the Lord will give it into the king’s hand.”

7 But Jehoshaphat asked, “Is there no longer a prophet of the LORD here whom we can inquire of?”

What does this remind you of?! A spoilt brat of a monarch, with people sucking up all around, like Queenie on Black Adder. Jon showed a fabulous clip.

8 The king of Israel answered Jehoshaphat, “There is still one prophet through whom we can inquire of the LORD, but I hate him because he never prophesies anything good about me, but always bad. He is Micaiah son of Imlah.”

“The king should not say such a thing,” Jehoshaphat replied.

9 So the king of Israel called one of his officials and said, “Bring Micaiah son of Imlah at once.”

10 Dressed in their royal robes, the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat king of Judah were sitting on their thrones at the threshing floor by the entrance of the gate of Samaria, with all the prophets prophesying before them. 11 Now Zedekiah son of Kenaanah had made iron horns and he declared, “This is what the LORD says: ‘With these you will gore the Arameans until they are destroyed.’”

12 All the other prophets were prophesying the same thing. “Attack Ramoth Gilead and be victorious,” they said, “for the LORD will give it into the king’s hand.”

13 The messenger who had gone to summon Micaiah said to him, “Look, the other prophets without exception are predicting success for the king. Let your word agree with theirs, and speak favorably.”

14 But Micaiah said, “As surely as the LORD lives, I can tell him only what the LORD tells me.”

15 When he arrived, the king asked him, “Micaiah, shall we go to war against Ramoth Gilead, or not?”

“Attack and be victorious,” he answered, “for the LORD will give it into the king’s hand.” (? Was he being sarcastic?)

16 The king said to him, “How many times must I make you swear to tell me nothing but the truth in the name of the LORD?”

17 Then Micaiah answered, “I saw all Israel scattered on the hills like sheep without a shepherd, and the LORD said, ‘These people have no master. Let each one go home in peace.’”

18 The king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, “Didn’t I tell you that he never prophesies anything good about me, but only bad?”

19 Micaiah continued, “Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne with all the multitudes of heaven standing around him on his right and on his left. 20 And the LORD said, ‘Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?’

“One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, ‘I will entice him.’

22 “‘By what means?’ the LORD asked.

“‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,’ he said.

“‘You will succeed in enticing him,’ said the LORD. ‘Go and do it.’

23 “So now the LORD has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you.”

That by the way, was the ‘fist in mouth – I can’t believe he said that’ moment!

24 Then Zedekiah son of Kenaanah went up and slapped Micaiah in the face. “Which way did the spirit from the LORD go when he went from me to speak to you?” he asked.

25 Micaiah replied, “You will find out on the day you go to hide in an inner room.”

26 The king of Israel then ordered, “Take Micaiah and send him back to Amon the ruler of the city and to Joash the king’s son 27 and say, ‘This is what the king says: Put this fellow in prison and give him nothing but bread and water until I return safely.’”

In other words, ‘Stuff you – I’m not bothered – I’ll do it anyway.’

Question: Are you aware of shaking off what God has said in the past – how has that worked out?

28 Micaiah declared, “If you ever return safely, the LORD has not spoken through me.” Then he added, “Mark my words, all you people!”

29 So the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat king of Judah went up to Ramoth Gilead. 30 The king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, “I will enter the battle in disguise, but you wear your royal robes.” So the king of Israel disguised himself and went into battle.

(Gutsy! Great plan! But it didn’t work out how he thought)
31 Now the king of Aram had ordered his thirty-two chariot commanders, “Do not fight with anyone, small or great, except the king of Israel.” 32 When the chariot commanders saw Jehoshaphat, they thought, “Surely this is the king of Israel.” So they turned to attack him, but when Jehoshaphat cried out, 33 the chariot commanders saw that he was not the king of Israel and stopped pursuing him.

34 But someone drew his bow at random and hit the king of Israel between the sections of his armor. The king told his chariot driver, “Wheel around and get me out of the fighting. I’ve been wounded.” 35 All day long the battle raged, and the king was propped up in his chariot facing the Arameans. The blood from his wound ran onto the floor of the chariot, and that evening he died. 36 As the sun was setting, a cry spread through the army: “Every man to his town. Every man to his land!”

37 So the king died and was brought to Samaria, and they buried him there. 38 They washed the chariot at a pool in Samaria (where the prostitutes bathed), and the dogs licked up his blood, as the word of the LORD had declared.

What can we take away from this amazing story: questions to ponder and discuss:

  • Do we consult God – at all? Enough?
  • Do we ask the right people?
  • Do we just follow the crowd like the RentaProphets?

If you have something to say – even if you’re right, there’s a way to say it and a way not to – is Micaiah somewhat too sarcastic and cutting?

Do you have to give it/ say it? Had this prophet been so negative in the past he could no longer deliver the word of the Lord because it’s not just the words but the heart – ‘grace AND truth.’

Is it your place?

Do we sit on it long enough to digest it or just spit it out without chewing it over?

Two major themes:

CONSEQUENCES & REPUTATION. 

Re the Riots that have been going on – how many of those involved were only thinking of the ‘now’ moment – and not aware that there are consequences. Every decision has consequences.

There were consequences for Ahab’s choices throughout his life, despite MANY warnings. He closed his mind and heart.

There were consequences for Micaiah. Maybe he spent the rest of his life in prison!

There are consequences for those caught – in terms of reputation.

Ahab had a reputation as a tough king.

Micaiah had a rep as one who’d speak the truth, even when the truth hurt. What do you want a reputation for?

We are writing a story.

You are writing the story of your life.

You are the co-author with God of that story.

What are you writing?

Quote: ‘You can’t turn back the clock, but you can wind it up again.’

You have more chapters to write! You have not reached the end of your story!

‘Do not look where you fell, but where you slipped.’ (African proverb).

Jun 05 2011
1 Comment
Bible, Christianity, Faith, Heaven, Jesus, Prayer, prophecy

Lynn Swart: True or False? Sermon at Ivy MCR today on Nehemiah 6:9-14

Lynn Swart: Sermon on Nehemiah 6:9-14

Nehemiah 6:9

For they all were trying to make us afraid, saying, “Their hands will be weakened in the work, and it will not be done.” 
Now therefore, O God, strengthen my hands. 
10 Afterward I came to the house of Shemaiah the son of Delaiah, the son of Mehetabel, who was a secret informer; and he said, “Let us meet together in the house of God, within the temple, and let us close the doors of the temple, for they are coming to kill you; indeed, at night they will come to kill you.” 
11 And I said, “Should such a man as I flee? And who is there such as I who would go into the temple to save his life? I will not go in!” 12 Then I perceived that God had not sent him at all, but that he pronounced this prophecy against me because Tobiah and Sanballat had hired him. 13 For this reason he was hired, that I should be afraid and act that way and sin, so that they might have cause for an evil report, that they might reproach me. 
14 My God, remember Tobiah and Sanballat, according to these their works, and the prophetess Noadiah and the rest of the prophets who would have made me afraid.

Whenever God wants to build, there is always opposition: INSIDE and OUT! Fear comes to take hold of our spirit, and freezes us.

FEAR = False Evidence Appearing Real!

Don’t succumb to that false evidence. God wants to strengthen us in faith, not yield to untrue statements. Someone’s saying ‘it won’t happen. you’ll give in – you have weak hands.’

When fear comes – I can REACT or RESPOND TO GOD. Nehemiah knew the nature and character of God. Not just as information but a revelation in our lives. So we don’t try to fight like for like.

Nehemiah lifts his GAZE and he lifts his HANDS yielding to a higher strength. lift your hands! Nehemiah went to Shemaiah’s house and it was a house full of fear and intimidation – a trap. There were enemies outside AND inside.

Not every message, however spiritual it sounds, is from God. We need discernment.

‘Let’s go to the temple.’ What could be holier than that? BUT this ‘prophet’ was shut in. Self-preserving, and not joining in the work.

And he says, ‘They are going to kill you. Let’s hide in the temple.’ But only the Levites were allowed in there. It was not Nehemiah’s PLACE. He’d have stepped out and been in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Prophecy from God when done RIGHT – gives life. But it can also be LETHAL. If it comes out of a place of fear.

How do we test a prophecy?

1. Test the character of the ‘prophet-’ Do they walk the walk? Or just talk the talk.

2. God will never violate his written Word.

Nehemiah could smell a rat because he knew the fragrance of heaven.

So he STANDS – and refuses to run away. And then he prays… focusing on the Lord. about ALL the false prophets.. because he only wanted the truth.

The work WAS completed – in record time. And if WE can hold our ground, and have our arms strengthened, we will see many miracle moments!

We need to be:

1. Convinced in purpose; knowing what I’m called to

2. Committed in vision: if you aim at nothing, you’ll hit it.

3. Constant in prayer: let intercession & intimacy be part of our rhythm.

4. Courageous in your journey. And EN-courage others. Add courage to them!

 

Note: image above from http://www.janeng.com/portfolio2/rotk_01.html

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Apr 08 2011
6 Comments
Bible, Christianity, Discipleship, Jesus, Prayer, Religion, Theology

Why I Believe – Part 2 (Does Jesus qualify as God?)

Maybe Jesus didn’t think of himself as God at all?

I went back to those eye witnesses. Christians believed it to be the sourcebook for what they believe about Jesus. And the gospel of John opens with the startling claim that Jesus, this guy John the writer knew as a best friend – he was ALSO God! ‘The Word.’ (Read Jn 1:1-3, 14).

But would Jesus agree that he really was all that – and more?

What kind of God would you want God to be, to be called God? Theologians talk about various ATTRIBUTES of God, for God to really be called God, he’d have to fit the bill.

God would have to be immutable (unchanging). The Bible says, Jesus is – the same, yesterday, today and forever.

You would think God – to be worthy of worship – would be eternal: he’d have no beginning and no end. Jesus fits the bill.

You’d want him omniscient – all knowing; and I read how Jesus met with people and knew all about them, the good, the bad and the ugly – he gave wisdom and teaching that cannot be surpassed. He knew what other people were thinking. He knew and predicted in advance time and again that he’d go to Jerusalem and be rejected, condemned, tortured, die on a cross –and rise again on the third day. He knew the past of people with a story to be ashamed of. He knew the future of the Jewish people and described it down to incredible detail. Those closest to him said, “You know all things…”

That knowledge can be a great comfort or a great problem for you.

Nobody else knows… but Jesus knows.

We’d expect God to be omnipresent. Jesus now says, “I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” He also said, “Wherever two or three gather in my name, I’m there with them.” So, Jesus is here.

We’d want God to be omnipotent: Jesus walked on water – and enabled others to at least have a go, he healed every kind of disease, set people free from dark spiritual powers that bound them, and said, “all authority on heaven and earth have been given to me.”

They say, power corrupts – and absolute power corrupts absolutely, but those who knew him best knew Jesus was HUMBLY omnipotent. Jesus can do anything!

I looked closer and found Jesus was a carpenter’s son, who grew up in a small impoverished dusty village, much more like those I saw in Haiti than here.

Fully human, He experienced the range of human emotions, sweated, ate because he was hungry and got tired and thirsty. He was tempted in every way as we are, yet didn’t give in like we do.

Fully man, but worshipped -and accepting it- as being fully God too! Fully God. God – in a body! Col 2;9 For in Him the whole fullness of Deity (the Godhead) continues to dwell in bodily form.’

As much man as if he were not God, as much God as if he were not man. The second person of the Trinity. Sent by the Father, empowered by the Holy Spirit, to be Saviour of the world.

From his birth – he shared and received the glory and honour due to God and never tried to stop anyone who gave that to him. Throughout his life he expected not just to be respected as a rabbi, a prophet, a holy man, but to be worshipped and adored by all creations, all people and even the angels as the Lord, the only God. For all eternity He said that all should honour him, the Son, as they honoured the Father! (John 5:23)

That would be an OUTRAGEOUS claim for a human being. He said that he always did what God the Father wanted him to do. He said people’s eternal destinies hung on how they responded to him – because he had the power of life and death.

He said, ‘I am the door, I am the bread of life, I am the resurrection and the life…’

Who?!

Who do you think you are Jesus?!

‘I am the way, the truth and the life!’

The New Testament doesn’t just describe him as a spokesman of God, like Isaiah or Moses was. No. He was the person of God – revealing himself as a person, so we wouldn’t have to guess what God’s like any more. Because we could never guess accurately his indescribable beauty, holiness, justice, power and love – God sent his Son.

Christ, the very best the Father had, who pre-existed as God, who was actually ‘here’ before here was here – steps into the world he created it to rescue it, to write himself into the story, be born of a woman that first Christmas, and die on a cross for our sins that first Easter. He expected that people would pray to him as to God, and as you look in the book of Acts, you see the very first Christians did! They called him Lord. They refused to call Caesar Lord, and died for that.

They sang praises to, and about his name. He said they should obey him as they’d obey God. They expected him to answer prayers – and he did!

I haven’t time to go into the evidence of the resurrection now, and you can look around on that yourself, though I’m so look forward to our big party at Gorton Monastery on Easter Sunday – because Jesus said he’d die and three days later be raised to life, and then he left the tomb and appeared that first Easter.

And again. And again and again – over 40 days, to friends, to family, to doubters – up to 500 of them at once – and gave them ‘many convincing proofs’ that he was the same man, the same God, the same Lord.

Oh, and he has met with me and multiple millions since to change our lives, destinies and eternities.

Thomas, doubting Thomas, said. “I won’t believe- unless I put my fingers in the nail holes.” Jesus appeared to him and said, “Go on then!”  (I paraphrase).

Then Thomas knelt down right there and then and said of Jesus, “My Lord…and my God!” When you see who Jesus is, and you see how wrong you have been – that’s the only appropriate response.

Jan 16 2011
Bible, Christianity, Church, Community, Failure, Faith, Family, Friends, Jesus, Prayer, Theology

Alan Taylor at Ivy MCR – how God can change me

We can become complacent.
If I’m going to heaven anyway, why bother changing now?
Jesus invites us into the Kingdom NOW. He wants us to enter into what has already been won for us 2000 years ago.
We’ve all picked up habits. We all have hurts & hang ups.
We are powerless without his power. He has to save us
His power has to change us
I believe in victory. We mustn’t shy away from overcoming. That’s for us!
To live extraordinary lives!
We believe in miracles
But sometimes they come as process not climactic events.

I must earnestly believe that God exists, that I matter to him, & that he has the power to help me recover.

Heb 11:6

1. Acknowledge God’s Existence
Psalm 14:1- The fool says in his heart there is no God
Rom 1:20 – God’s power & nature – clearly seen.
All the universe speaks of him.
The stars are a sermon!!
We need to know the historical nature & apologetics of our faith. Don’t be lazy.

2. Understand Gods Nature
Our parents might not have really modelled him too well, what is God really like- because I can only trust him if I know him.
Col 1:15
So… Get into the gospels! Because Jesus is God.

He… Knows all about my situation.
(I might have no idea what you are going through – he is intimately aware- keeps your tears in a bottle).

He…Cares about my situation.
(Ps 103). He knows what we are made of – dust! He is tender, gentle toward us, even when correcting us.

He… Can change me – and my situation.
We can buy into the lie that it’s just who I am. Not true! You are being transformed! Get in a small group with others. That will help – community. Resurrection power is in you!

Don’t just postpone the change. We are meant to have zoe eternal life now. Don’t keep looking in the rear view mirror, that does not have to shape what’s ahead of you.

There are seasons where he will bring you to your knees.

How do I accept Gods power to help me?
God even gives you the WILL to change what needs to change. He has power, love & self control to enable it.

Believe
And
Receive

It’s simple- just say to God..

‘Help.’

Tagged ,
Dec 19 2010
Bible, Christianity, Christmas, Church, Discipleship, Faith, Manchester, Prayer, prophecy, Religion, REVIVAL, Theology, wisdom

How Wise Are You?

Great talk for Christmas by Debra Green at Ivy MCR this evening- my notes…

The Wise men. We don’t know how many came, but they had three gifts. The most Jewish of the synoptic gospel writers wants to tell us about these people & the universality of the good news.
The shepherds are in.
These magi – are included.
Unlikely guest list!
Only those with eyes to see. Those who are seeking, find.
It’s hard these days to get Christmas cards – only 1% of cards have a ‘religious’ sense.
£16.7 Billion will be spent this Christmas by Britons. Many will go into more and more debt?
How wise are we?!
Could it have been a supernova?
Or just the manifestation of the glory of God? Because it was moving.
It seems only the magi saw the star. By that, Christ was revealed. Jesus then becomes the star. The star of the show.
There’s a move to remove Christ from Christmas.
Our job is to reveal him to the world.
How?
By speaking of him.
This is great news for all people!
When you follow a star, & find a stable.
Disappointed?
They went to the palace to look for him.
But he went where least expected.
You could be looking for a star & find a stable. After a long journey.
Not what we were expecting?
But something amazing is there.
The Magi’s job was to be interpreting signs for life, the signs of the times. Some take this as a word that astrology is okay. Today so many are into horoscopes etc – it’s a dangerous guide!
Lev 20:6 & many other passages warns against such.

It needs the church, to reveal Jesus.
God is bringing light to great darkness – Is 9.
The North Star is the only one to be guided by. If you lose it, you will get lost.
Jesus is our North Star!
If you seek him
Get on the journey
Search
He’s looking for you
Revealing himself
You will find the one you are looking for. He is your direction.

The Wise men made the wise choice. They worshipped him.
Lay face down before him.

Tagged ,
Nov 11 2010
Bible, Faith, Healing, Prayer, Religion, Uncategorized, wisdom

John Coles on Healing/ Prayer teams

I started taking notes on John last week, but then found the boiler had broke at church so spent the rest of the day trying to sort that. The joys of church leadership! Here’s the bits I did get…

Build faith – God is willing to heal today and his desire is to use you to do that.

Jesus Christ is the same, yesterday and forever! (Heb 13:8)

New Wine’s Model for healing prayer – to use anywhere (not just in church/ on ministry team)

What does it mean to be a Christian? To become more like Jesus. 2 Cor 3:8 What does that mean in practice?

To have relationship with Abba Father (Rom 8), to live in holiness, and to minister in the power of the Holy Spirit – ‘The Spirit of the Lord is upon me…’ (me too!)

Was Jesus fully God or fully man? BOTH.

How was he able to heal – if was because he was divine, then that rules us out. He sent his disciples out to show that a human being full of the Holy Spirit is enabled to heal the sick.

Francis MacNutt. ‘It is only when the thousands of (God’s people) are praying for the sick that people will regard the healing ministry as ordinary. Only then will the healer be regarded neither as an object of scorn, nor as a subject of worship.’

We are not to falsely idolise particular healers – but involve everyone in this kind of prayer!

Matt 3:13-15 – Jesus gave that authority to the twelve, to heal. Does he give it to us?

He tells them – 1) Be with me. 2) Go out with authority to preach and 3) HEAL!

Luke 10:1,9 He then appointed 72 others. – to do the same stuff. They are ‘little children’ – but they can do it! That’s what delights him.

Matt 28:18-20. Do MY stuff; preach the gospel and heal the sick! The twelve are not exclusive – ‘Everyone gets to play’ (Wimber).

If you haven’t been healing the sick systematically and consistently – why not? In some parts of the world, that’s what’s happening.

What stops us?

Inadequate Theology -
Liberalism/rationalism – miracles can’t happen – reinterpret them
or cessational view: miracles no longer required.
Both are head in the sand views – in fact, the more we pray, the more we see God is healing!
Salvation-only views.
Lack of compassion
Fear
of ‘failure,’ or false hope, or opinions of others, or pastoral chaos.

No repeatable model
(only in a particular way or place, like at the communion rail).
Or a particular ‘anointed’ person gets everyone in a prayer line…
It should be ordinary people, praying in an ordinary way & places.
No opportunity.
respect the leadership – you are not ‘entitled’ to be on the ministry team. We can all pray anywhere – ‘the meeting place is the training place for the marketplace’ (Pytches). We want to see ‘healing on the streets,’ in teams and as individuals.

Oct 06 2010
2 Comments
Bible, Catalyst Conference 2010, Christianity, Church, Faith, Prayer, Theology, Uncategorized

John Ortberg on Spiritual Formation at Catalyst 2010

John Ortberg Catalyst Pre-Labs 2010

What Kind of people are we producing? There are a lot of churches that are doing evangelism/ worship/ serving really well. But where are the churches that are producing humble, loving, transparent people – like Jesus.

How do people get formed spiritually?

There is a God. It is not you.

So, your life is not your project – it’s God’s. Eph 4:10.

So only God knows what he best version of you is, and he’s concerned to help people do that. He has many tools to use, he is patient, it’s way larger than we think it is. Now, we live in a gap between our destiny(what God wants for us) and the reality.

Most people have a great idea about the person/parent etc they want to be – and then there’s the reality. Everybody has these dreams about the person we want to be and find ourselves crushed and bruised because of the gap caused by sin.

Can I bridge that gap myself? No. It takes grace, not effort. And when I respond to grace it changes everything.

But there’s still a gap – between me and the me God wants me to be. And lots of people who understand how to be saved by grace go on to try to live by effort.

Transformation requires at least as much grace as salvation does.

People think if they listen to another talk, work harder, try to be nicer, get up at 4am to pray (even though you’re not a morning person & even Jesus doesn’t want to be round you at that time).

We try harder, doing things that some writer or expert says to do but eventually fatigue sets in. After you get tired enough you quit. Then feel guilty. So try again and it kills people!

Living in grace is learned behaviour

A very bad thing has happened to the word grace, where it’s been reduced to ‘the forgiveness of sins.’ But in the NT it’s so much more expansive. Paul says he wants people to grow in grace.

Grace = God doing in me, what I could not do myself – and have not earned.

You were intended to live by grace, from the first moment to the last.

Dallas Willard “Saints burn more grace than sinners ever could.” You can burn grace like rocket fuel to propel you into God’s purposes. We need to learn to live by grace.

John 7:38-39
On the last and greatest day of the Feast, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him.” By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

Thirsty = to be driven by unsatisfied desires. Our world knows what that looks like.

Who is more content, the person with a million dollars or the perosn with 12 kids?

- the person with no kids doesn’t want any more!

From your belly – (Greek word is what we get colitis from). Having a strong core is salvation in our day! The core is the deepest place; out of that can flow rivers of living water. In those days – a desert place, wherever water was there was LIFE.

Gen 2:10 – a river flowed in Eden. That’s God’s intention in our lives – that we live not with unfulfilled desires, but with grace.

Psalm 42.

Rev 22 is your destiny;
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

Could the nations use a little healing?
The world is waiting for agents of transformation. God’s plan for healing the nations is that people with rivers flowing form their bellies go to schools and cities and need.

So…
What if Jesus was right?
What if the Spirit is like a river, constantly available and flowing.

People don’t understand what spiritual formation is. It’s not a program for reading Henri Nouwen or Lectio divinia.

Spiritual formation is happening in you and everyone, all the time, for better or worse, every day. There is an inner me, a flow of thoughts, feelings, intentions, character – that os being shaped every day like it or not.

By TV, at work, in conversation. Spiritual Formation is not just for introverts.

What if your job is just to jump in the river, and look what opens the flow, and what blocks it? What quenches the work of the Spirit? It’s not rocket science – just figuring out “How do I connect and live in the flow of this Spirit as THIS moment?” SIN keeps me from living in the flow of grace.

Growth is hand crafted, not mass-produced
This is true about growth in every dimension. What would feed a mouse would starve an elephant – the key is not to treat all alike but discover – how does this flourish? Parents soon discover that they can’t actually treat all your kids he same. we have to ask, ‘How will they grow?”

God deals with all his people differently throughout the scriptures.
Jesus deals with people differently in the gospels.

God has existed before – but he has never had a relationship with YOU before- and he wants to do a new thing.

Growth is hand-crafted not Mass Produced.

But people hear from a talk how he deals with the Pastor and think it should be the same for them; but it requires freedom & there’s no ‘one size fits all.’

Not everyone should journal! (It’s become a verb, and a badge of honour). Not everyone likes to!

Jesus never journalled!

CS Lewis STOPPED journalling when he became a Christian, cos he’d done it for years before and it made him too self centred. So don’t feel guilty if you don’t. There are bigger things for you to feel guilty about!

People can be apathetic about racism and starving kids,and feel guilty cos they didn’t journal today.

You do not measure people’s devotion to God by their devotional life. Your ‘walk’ is not a list of spiritual activities. (How many people can we get to journal?). The Pharisees win that kind of system, if you gauge spirituality by activities the Pharisees will win again.

If someone asked you ‘Hows your spiritual life going’ – what’s the right matrix?

Dallas Willard said….
Am I growing more or less irritable these days?
Am I more or less easily discouraged these days?

These are indicators to help me know if I’m living close to God. That’s where grace gets experience. Disciples ae hand crafted – nt mass produced. He didn’t pray “May they all have identical devotional practices – but that ‘they be ONE- with you.’

cf MONVEE – this ministry showed a video at the end of the talk…
A group asking, how do people grow best, spiritually?

Eg., Introverts get it easier on spiritual formation. Solitude? Okay for an extrovert if you can take three or four people with you.

What’s your learning style?
Not everyone’s the same. Some people don’t like to read. If I love to read and I say, ‘You have to read this and that’ I can make people feel they don’t love Jesus very much if they’re not like me.

What blocks the rivers?
You have a signature sin.
You do not sin at random.
You will be tempted in areas which are linked to your passions and gifts.

A peacemaker will be tempted to never confront
A leader to manipulate
An artist to give way to ungodly passions
Tell me your gifts and I’ll tell you your sins…


YOU are God’s handiwork, and you will always be you.

I do not have to grow spiritually to be like anyone else. You will never be anyone else. Redemption is always the redemption of Creation. What he redeems is what he created. Redemption is the reclamation of creation. Embrace that.

The world is not likely to respond to a gospel of transformation proclaimed by untransformed people. So, are the rivers of living water flowing through your body – right now?

When Jesus says, ‘Seek first the Kingdom’ he’s not putting something heavy on you.

Job number 1? Dallas Willard says – ‘Live with deep contentment & joy in your everyday experience with God.’

Tagged , , ,
Sep 20 2010
4 Comments
Bible, Christianity, Church, Faith, Jesus, leadership, Manchester, Prayer, Religion, REVIVAL, Uncategorized

WE DO NOT HAVE COCKROACHES!

“You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men. You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden.”

I’ll admit to a certain amount of frustration at times from various books I read, even the odd conference – here it is….

Try to grow a church and people say, ‘Oh you’re all about the numbers.’
As if the numbers weren’t people.

People like your kids, your neighbours, your friends.
Don’t you want them to come to Jesus too?

I talked in church yesterday about how Jesus refused the numbers game when at the beginning of John 4 the Pharisees started comparing his growth stats with John the Baptists’ – how he went to a lone broken woman in an unexpected place on the margins, because the kingdom of heaven does not usually advance by crowds but one life at a time. (In fact through that one woman’s story revival hit the town!).

But sometimes lack of relevance or connectedness to ordinary people – evangelistic ineffectiveness – is applauded as a sign of faithfulness rather than a cause of concern or a need to change and try something different.

Being ‘attractional‘ has been made a dirty word in some church settings, and I don’t get that. How about ‘A city set on a hill cannot be hidden?’

Will doing/ being/ leading church better help or hinder that?

I know being the light of the world is not all about having a big lighting rig or the best sound systems etc. (but I’d rather the sound etc. be as good as it can be with what we’ve got).

What are you doing to help?
More important:
What are you doing to hinder?

Are you praying/serving/encouraging/helping church get better?
Or are you getting bitter?

Or shall I talk about batter….
Because there’s a chip shop just opened near us here in Didsbury.

So what? Well people queue up outside this chippy, in the rain, without brollies if needs be. Long queues. For fish and chips. They’ll be queuing now, I bet.
Something fishy about that?

Well you know there are good chippies and bad ones.
They are just being the very best they can be.

It’s no good just opening a chippy and hoping (or even praying) people will come. They might stumble in once, but if the service or food or hospitality is awful, they’ll not come back.

Bad Examples?

Bad Practices: The town I lived in when in Devon, the local chinese – the owner threatened an environmental health inspector with a cleaver. I didn’t want to go to that chippy!

Bad ‘Advertising;’ I once saw a curry house on Oldham Road that had a cardboard sign in the window; ‘WE DO NOT HAVE COCKROACHES.’ Didn’t make me want to find out for myself to be honest. Sometimes – even with the best intentions – we shoot ourselves in the foot.

The new chip shop in Didsbury village must be doing something right, (chip shop evangelists?)! So much so, I’m going to try it tonight too, to see what’s remarkable about it – and so it goes, and grows.

Somebody is doing something RIGHT there – something different. Others in that industry who are wise and humble can learn from them.

Could churches learn something too? About something much more important.

They’re not content to just ‘be faithful’ to gather around the fryer and know that they have had fellowship making fish and chips again- they actually want to feed people!

They’re not happy to occasionally have a regular customer come back once a week or once a month and have their chip need met. They want hungry people to come to COD! To have the peas that passes understanding.

I bet if you meet the owners and employees, they’ll be passionate, knowledgeable, excited and friendly. They want a fish and chip revival!

I think we can learn something from this, and we should – if we’re going to be the light of the world that attracts people to Jesus.

Extra salt please!

Tagged , , , , , , , , ,
Aug 09 2010
Christianity, Church, Community, Friends, Holy Spirit, Jesus, Manchester, Prayer, Religion

Lynn Swart’s talk at Ivy Mcr on Acts 20

These notes I took during the talk form discussion  for Ivy Grow Groups if you’re still meeting through summer….

What happened in Acts is not just about what happened, but what can happen today!

When we read Acts it is all about journeys – remember that we are on a journey too. Every day – sometimes we get stuck!

Discuss: Where are you on your journey right now? anyone stuck? Pray for one another.

Our journey at Ivy as a community is marked by Knowing, Growing & Going in God. That’s our missionary journey as a community.

We are all full time! Full time workers for the church & kingdom, some of us get paid for that. Some don’t.

Discuss: Do you agree? Should ANYONE get paid for Christian ministry?

The resource we cannot do without? The Holy Spirit! Lynn says it’s great to open the day by saying, ‘Good morning, Holy Spirit,’ every day. Invite his leading. Don’t just ask him to be with me, let him lead!

There is still a voyage of discovery – however long we’ve been following.

Keep steady in God – by knowing him, Christ in me.

Acts 20:1&2 (Read)

Uproars still happen. Idols don’t like being cast down.

Nb. this word – Encouraging! Parakaleo = come alongside and call out…

Do you love to encourage others? Come alongside & Call the greatness out of those around you?
We need people around us who will instil confidence in each other- because it is tough- but God is for us! We either believe that fully or not at all. ‘If God is for us who can be against us?’

Encouraging means ‘strengthen in purpose.’ believing that this person can make a difference.

Are we looking out for one another, lifting each other up? Not competing or even comparing. – without expectation of reward or recognition.

We need encouragement from God.

“The enemy wants to take you out at the ankles. God wants to take you out at the knees.” Do you let that happen first?

We need to speak encouragement to ourselves. Build altars of remembrance. Where I say, ‘Thus far the Lord has helped me…’

Tell stories of encouragement to one another. Prophesy over one another, naturally. Pray for one another. Take the opportunity to speak goodness and purpose into one another, rather than being quick to voice problems. I already know what my weaknesses & problems are! I need someone to say, ‘I see this in you..God’s doing this..’

? Take some time in the group doing this? Tell stories of encouragement!

Then there’s the Eutychus incident. He fell out of the window & dies. Vs 7-11. Paul speaks life – to the community! ‘don’t be alarmed’ by what you see with the natural eye.

Jesus is still the resurrection!

Community is so important. We cant do this journey alone. We need community. Ages mixed together.

Prophetic word via Dennis Wakefield was read out out by Lynn. This is on the church website.

I can’t watch my back, I need someone at my back!

Communion. Remember who is our life.

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