How to get men to love Church (part 1)

August 31, 2010

This post – originally a talk at the New Wine National Leader’s event, has recently been published in Sorted magazine.

I stopped going to church as soon as I had a choice. In my early teens my parents decided they’d only ever gone out of occasional religious duty and were going to stop. They said I had a choice as to whether I went. Starsky and Hutch were on, no-brainer.

Years of fun, sin and regret in pretty much equal measure prevailed until at twenty-one I came to know Jesus after an undeniable experience of meeting him; a story for another day.

Even though I now saw myself as a Christian I probably still wouldn’t have bothered with church if not for a couple of clergymen who bust the stereotype for me early on; Neil was the first. He accepted me where I was at- a copper who grew up on a council estate now working a rough Manchester central beat. When I came to the little Bible study group I’d been invited to he laughed at my (colourful to say the least) jokes and inappropriate remarks rather than making me feel terrible or expecting me to feel bad for just being me. I wanted to be like Neil.
Alan was amazing. What I liked about Alan was that he was a man – and a man of God. United fan. Generous, funny, too humble – and you knew he loved you. I wanted to be like Alan. It’s men like that who got me not just to go to church, but to stay there, stick at it, and not just moan or leave but do my best to make it better.

The church has a problem, Houston. Over the last twenty years 38% of believing men left the church. Believing men – deciding they still believe but don’t want to go to church anymore! So we are facing a crisis before we even think about connecting more effectively with men like many who read Sorted but are still not at all sure about this Jesus stuff. It’s like running the taps without the plug in.

The person most likely to regularly go to church in this country according to the Tear Fund research report is a black, professional middle class woman, over 60. We all love Moira Stewart so that’s great. But where are the blokes?

Gender Gap Widening
In the UK the ratio of women to men in church is 65% to 35%, but far too few churches have anything like 35% of men regularly attending. Worse news than the Coalition budget? The gender gap is widening – and the less men you get, especially young men, the less people generally you get. In the last 20 years 49% of men under 30 left the UK church!
Now does that mean British men are not that interested in spiritual things? Maybe we just point to the parable of the sower and decide that men are generally hard soil, while black, middle class, middle aged women are good soil? (It’s their fault, not the church’s fault in other words). We can’t get away with that, because there is no gender gap in Islam, Buddhism, Judaism or Hinduism. In fact in all those other religions there are MORE men than women! Men are interested in spiritual things, and I maintain that there’s no message to compete with gospel truth, so why is it not reaching the average British bloke?

Peter Williamson - Mr Average?

Mr Average
Peter Williamson’s wife put him forward for the title for a Channel 4 Documentary, and I know not all of this will apply to him (or you) as I’ve cobbled it together from various sources the average British man…

Had 8 sexual partners before he got married in his early thirties,
Has two children
Drives a Ford Fiesta
Is 5ft 9in
Owes £9k of unsecured debt
Has size 10 feet, a 40 inch chest and a 35 inch waist
Weighs 13 stone
Owns 16 pairs of underpants – this being the only item of clothing he buys with confidence.
Spends one month of his life looking for lost socks
Says ‘Sorry’ 1.9 million times in his lifetime
Considers himself working class
Reads the Sun
Has sex eight times a month, but thinks about it thirteen times a day…
(which explains a lot)
Can cook at least four meals, including spaghetti Bolognese
Has at least one Harry Potter novel in his house
Watches three hours of TV a day,
Uses the bathroom six times a day,
Is one inch taller than the average Frenchman
Will die of a heart attack at 76
His most popular conversational subject is sport, then work, after that politics and economics, or disputes about abstract ideas such as How The World Began.
He believes in God…

But most men completely by-pass church! Even in a crisis, few of them think Church might be the place to go anymore, they’ll go to the fridge and TV, or feel better at the pub or the match or sitting on their own fishing. They see Church as a place that according to a BBC Radio survey is for wimps, women and irrelevant. Church as we are generally doing it, is generally repulsive which means the opposite of attractive to men.

The Repulsive Church
You might not like the word repulsive? The Dictionary states the word means – “Causing aversion, having the ability to repel.’ I was disturbed but not surprised by the recent survey conducted by Sorted and CVM that found men would feel more at home in a ladies lingerie dept than to go to church.

So how did a faith founded by a Man and His twelve male (mostly working class) disciples, who were told to be ‘Fishers of men’ become fairly popular with older women, but repulsive to the average man? If you go to church, or especially if you lead one – are you part of the problem or part of the solution? Are you a fisher of men or is your church repulsive to men?

Nineteenth century Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon said, “There has got abroad a notion, somehow, that if you become a Christian you must sink your manliness and turn milksop.” When I was at theological college I saw a strange thing happen, as those who came to train as church leaders started out fairly normal, but learned how to do the concerned face and by the end of training have a particular voice –you know what that sounds like unless you do it – you learn a particular tonality that nobody else but clergy talk like. The good news? You can UNLEARN that too, if you want to connect to the average man you’d better! While we’re at it, unlearn using words and having arguments about things nobody in the real world gives a toss about.

I’m not going to go into detail about what some writers have listed as being what puts men off church, the feminisation argument – because they are often very sweeping and generalising, and I know there are exceptions. No doubt someone will tell me that your church is led by an all woman team, and that in the pastel coloured room a flower arranging, hymn singing crèche group at your church is packed full of hairy legged blokes in their twenties.
But listen if you will to David Murrow who gives one big reason why men hate going to church – it’s not ‘because of all the women,’ but because the men there aren’t really men. That’s the perception at least.

He says most men have a religion: MASCULINITY – they are serious students of what it is to be a man, disciples of other men on TV or sports or whatever, wanting to work out what it is to be a man, whatever that is, and they don’t see the church has having any answers to that.

Tough, earthy, working guys rarely come to church. High achievers, alpha males, risk takers, and visionaries are in short supply. Fun-lovers and adventurers are also underrepresented in church. These rough-and-tumble men don’t fit in with the quiet, introspective gentlemen who populate the church today. The truth is, most men in the pews grew up in church. They enjoy participating in comforting rituals that have changed little since their childhood. There are also millions of men who attend services under duress, dragged by a mother, wife, or girlfriend. Today’s churchgoing man is humble, tidy, dutiful, and above all, nice.”

That’s what Murrow says the unconscious message the church is giving to church, come and be nice. Oh and if you really want to be really nice it would be awfully nice if you could help cut the grass in the graveyard. The nice message is repulsive.

Jesus said, “If any man would come after me, let him take up his cross and die.” That’s not nice. It’s the verse that brought me to faith.


Diamond Geezers: FRIENDS

July 26, 2010

I’m working on a new book! Three quarters of the way through writing it at the moment and hoping some kind and talented person out there might help me put a great website together for it too. It’s a book for blokes, called Diamond Geezers - and will be published early 2011 by Integrity. Exciting eh?

I’m going to start putting occasional bits online for your thoughts/ comments/ discussion. I may or may not be able to respond to those – as I’m headed to a publishing deadline.

One of the chapters focuses on friends - I made the statement yesterday in my talk that most men don’t do friendships very well. We can end up insulating ourselves, which leads to isolating ourselves.

Last week on holiday in Zante I was privileged to attend a small but incredibly lively Pentecostal church (Greek speaking, good to help me struggle on with my New Testament Greek) where three new believers were baptised.  a great time- all these candidates dressed in white to symbolise their new lives. At the end of the service all the men kissed all the other men.

Over my years in C of E churches some people moaned about sharing a handshake during the peace in services – well I went up to thank the Pastor and he smacked the lips either side of my face.  I admit I didn’t feel comfortable with that level of intimacy!

I think we men can be content to be superficial. There was a time in my life I was quite happy to just be intimate with my wife and superficial with most other people. Where did that come from? As a police officer I only had mates who were other police officers, and some of those relationships forged in tough circumstances remain very strong and deep today; but I didn’t trust other people. Then when I became a minister I was subtly told, “You can’t have friends in the parish,”  that was the received wisdom from older clergy, and moving round the country every few years didn’t make for easy depth of friendships either.

Yet here we are saying we follow a God who became a man who had close mates who he lived with 24/7 and shared everything with. He caleld them FRIENDS. He was intimate – he washed their feet and was betrayed with a kiss!

Maybe it’s the memory or possibility of being let down or of letting others down that makes us put a crust around our hearts so nobody gets too close again? Do you agree most men are not good a CLOSE friendships? Happy to punch on the shoulder or awkwardly slap three times on the back if you go for a man hug, but not letting others know your ups and downs, your secret thoughts, fears and dreams? People who you mentor and/or mentor you? Companions on your journeys? Work friends?

Women – do you feel like you really know the men in your life?

Men – who’s your best friend?Does anyone really know you? I’m meeting mine for breakfast tomorrow.

Are you ‘content to be superficial?’ Does the internet/ social media etc encourage that (eg facebook ‘Friends’)

Do you have, like Jesus, various groups of friends -can you put some names on these groups?

3 – Peter, James & John

12 – Apostles.

72 – men & women who relied on him and he relied on them?


More blessed to give than receive

February 27, 2010

I just received a letter and picture for the fridge from one of the kids we sponsor through Compassion UK. Tucked away between the prayers for us and news of football games was this – ‘please read Acts 20:35′

Not a verse I know by heart – I looked it up. And then I found I did know it:

…remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’

I once heard of a Bishop who preached, “Jesus said – and I think he was right…’

Well, I know he’s right!

The apostle Paul knew that too and recalls in this passage words spoken by Jesus which are not recorded in any of the gospels; words that shaped the early church’s thought and practice – and helped it make such an impact! It was said of the early Christians, “They share their food but not their beds.” They were sexually pure but promiscuous in generosity!  They lived like that because they had their eyes on another destination.

Jesus said, “Store up treasures in heaven . . .” Why? Because it’s wise! Because whatever we have given to help the poor or invested in building God’s kingdom will last. It won’t be consumed by moths and rust and thieves.  But you’ll never see a hearse pulling a trailer. 

A friend of mine is an independent financial adviser. He says, “When it come to your money don’t just think just 3 days ahead, or 3 months or 3 years. Think 30 years.” Jesus Christ says, “Don’t just ask, how will this investment be paying off in thirty years. Ask, how will this investment be paying off in thirty million years?”

C. T. Studd left being England cricket captain to reach out to needy people in the mission field he famously said this…“One short life, ’twill soon be past, only what’s done for Christ will last.”

I have some bad news. I have a terminal disease! I’m going to die!

Even worse news? You have the same disease! You’re going to die too!

The disease is called mortality. One day, sooner than any of us would like to  think, we’ll each stand before our Lord, the Audience of One. He’ll call us to account for how we’ve stewarded our lives and our resources here.

If your treasures are in heaven….good news. Heaven is coming! All Hell can’t going to stop it. Anything you’ve put in God’s hands – for his work-  is safe. Anything you haven’t – isn’t going to last.

Jesus said, “Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” He’s saying, “Show me your chequebook and bank statement, I’ll show you where your heart is. Your heart follows your money.”

Want a heart for Pork Bellies? Put your money there! Want a heart for Tesco? Buy shares! Want a heart for God? A heart for what matters most to Him? A heart bigger than your next acquisition? Put your treasures where God is at work! Want a heart for your church? Invest your money in your church’s ministry. Then, put your treasures in mission work – reaching the poor. Want a heart for street kids? Invest… every day there are opportunities to buy up more shares in God’s kingdom!

Five minutes after we die, we’ll know exactly how we should have lived. But then it’ll be too late to go back and change anything! God has given us his Word so we don’t have to wait until we die to know how we should have lived. There’s no second chance for the unbeliever – AND no second chance for the believer!

You and I have one short life on earth to invest in heaven. Let’s not miss the opportunity! Here’s a great prayer: May what will be most important to me five minutes after I die, become most important to me now.

Alfred Nobel, a Swedish chemist, made his fortune by inventing dynamite and other powerful explosives. When Nobel’s younger brother died in an experiment, a newspaper accidentally printed his obituary instead. He was described as a man who became rich from enabling people to kill each other. Shaken by this assessment, Nobel wrote a will which resolved to use his fortune to reward accomplishments that benefited humanity, including what we now know as the Nobel Peace Prize.

Nobel had a rare opportunity – to look at the assessment of his life at its end, while he still had time to change it. While we live on earth – God is so gracious- it’s the land of second chances.

Put yourself in Nobel’s place. Read your own obituary, not as written by uniformed or biased people, but as an onlooking angel might write it from heaven’s point of view. Look at it carefully. Then let’s use the rest of our lives to edit that obituary into what we really want it to be.

To live each day with the knowledge that every moment we get closer to death, we get closer to our treasures – rather than further from them.


Not a matter of prayer- a matter of faith! Arnold Muwonge

February 22, 2010

Our dear friend Arnold Muwonge spoke yesterday at Ivy Manchester.

His main text was Ruth 1.21 I went out full, I came back empty. The title was RHYTHMS OF CHANGE.
Here are my notes on what he shared ; great stuff – and see the end for an important prophetic word from Arnold.

A man he knew came from Africa, when he was at home he could smell gas, but he got used to it. It took another guy coming in to be able to alert him. When you are cooking, you may not smell how good it is: needs a stranger to come from outside to smell it.
Arnold brings an outsider’s perspective!

There are three main actors in Ruth. It’s a great story.

BOAZ - A type of Christ. His character was integral. Dependable. He is faithful, rich (psalm 24), able to help, our provider. We must learn to trust him. He gives us everything. He will always turn up. We can be confident in him. He operates according to covenant. Our salvation is based on covenant.

NAOMI - a type of Israel. Goes away from God for what she wants. But God brings her back! She goes away from God because of her insecurities. To get her needs met. Ends up where she is not to be. Goes through the wrong doors. The wrong door can take 5 mins to open, & 10 years to close. Naomi is a type of israel. She left a place where she was actually full. We forget how blessed we are. Vs 21. Thank God for life, for salvation. The grace of God which keeps you.

RUTH is a type of the church. A Moabitess. A nation founded from & conceived from terrible immorality, considered cursed to the 10th generation. A rejected bloodline! Now we find ourselves on a place where we were never meant to be. There is grace. There is nobody God cannot save!

Ruth is a book of encouragement, of survival, through all the pain; they bounce back, by the grace of God. The devil takes hold of us in times of trouble. The devil tells you, ‘you are not loved by God, but if you follow my way, I will help you.’

But pain is not always negative : it can keep people together. We think pain separates; These three women, all they had in common was their pain & struggle, it was their only story-  at the beginning. Loss. Bereavement. Whatever you go through – God still loves you! Through their pain, they stuck together. Not all pain leads to death; it can lead to redemption! We can learn through our need, to seek until we find.

God may not say what we want, instead he says, ‘Be strong! Circumstances have no anointing to change the call on your life.’

One day, Naomi woke up and said, ‘I am going back to Israel – leave me alone.’ She realised there was something shifting, she was going! In Gods timing. We have created an intellectual God. But our God is a miracle worker!

People who are moving Gods way are not necessarily bothered whether everyone else comes with them. Its not about getting a vote. They say, ‘It’s my time now to step into what the Lord is leading me into.’ We may be misunderstood when we do that, even by the ones closest to us. Cf Hannah & the priest. Rom 8:25

Orpah kissed her and decided to go her way. That’s okay. She doesnt get condemned for that. She gets a blessing. We have to be big enough to do that; If someone chooses to go, that’s okay. They are out of your story, their contribution to it has ended – but God is still writing it! He is writing it in colour. We can become bitter that someone walked out, or we can look who’s coming in!

Naomi says; “Your God will be my God.” The commitment is what God uses, to use us. Ruth makes a commitment. There are people you meet, a community, who are different, but your prophetic destiny is mapped with the people next to you in church. You are not just here because its a good church. My breakthrough is in how I connect. Plug in!

Ask God, ‘How am I to play my part in the story?’

What made Naomi want to go? She recognised Gods timing; recognising what God is doing in my life, church, family. Ask God today, ‘What are you doing?’ and join him in that.

Is there a shift, a shaking inside you? God is going to give you a kick in your pants. You have been dormant long enough! God can use you!

Ruth, who was supposed to be rejected, ends up in Jesus lineage/ story. At the end of their life, they look back and see His hand was at work. But we must take a step!

Arnold closed his talk in the second service with a prophetic word for Ivy Manchester which he said he has had for two years for us:

“You have been talking for a long time about getting a large building and praying about getting a larger building – this is no longer a matter of prayer, but a matter of FAITH! Believe God for this!”


Heart check

December 7, 2009

It’s said that in ancient times, when Red Indian people visited a wise man because they were sick inside, he asked four things:
1. When in your life did you stop singing?
2. When in your life did you stop dancing?
3. When in your life did you stop being enchanted by stories, and particularly by your own story?
4. When in your life did you start being uncomfortable in silence?

Read those through again. Slowly. If you’ve been prickly recently, if you’ve found others wind you up easily… if you’ve found other people provoke you a lot- maybe you need a heart check today…


1. When in your life did you stop singing?
2. When in your life did you stop dancing?
3. When in your life did you stop being enchanted by stories, and particularly by your own story?
4. When in your life did you start being uncomfortable in silence?

The Bible says in Proverbs 4:23 “ABOVE ALL ELSE, GUARD THE HEART, FOR FROM IT FLOW THE ISSUES OF LIFE.”

Jesus said, “Out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks.” What’s coming out of your heart most often at the moment? What’s your overflow today?


FAITH in God is reasonable. Faith in atheism is not. (John Lennox)

November 24, 2009

Notes from lecture at RZIM by John Lennox

Reasonable Faith.

When he started at Cambridge – someone said to him, ‘Oh you’re Irish, you all believe in God, and fight about him.’

He started to engage more with non believers. Has done so in unusual places. Eg communist atheism.  Russia. More recently debating eg. Hitchens and Dawkins. Comes from the conviction that Christian faith is not only helpful, but TRUE. And if we do not stand up, secularism or atheism will appear to win.

1 Peter 3.13 Can anyone really harm you for being eager to do good deeds? Even if you have to suffer for doing good things, God will bless you. So stop being afraid and don’t worry about what people might do. Honor Christ and let him be the Lord of your life. Always be ready to give an answer when someone asks you about your hope. Give a kind and respectful answer and keep your conscience clear. This way you will make people ashamed for saying bad things about your good conduct as a follower of Christ.  You are better off to obey God and suffer for doing right than to suffer for doing wrong. Christ died once for our sins. An innocent person died for those who are guilty. Christ did this to bring you to God, when his body was put to death and his spirit was made alive.

This passage’s context = FEAR! We all contend with it. Subtle, peer pressure. Looking the odd one out. Not knowing your stuff. PC.

We are told to ALWAYS be ready to give a DEFENSE.

A REASON – a logos…

In the context of fear – nevertheless, get on and do it.

Apologetics is not a subcategory of philosophy. It is just what Christians have always been supposed to be doing. To clear up misrepresentation, misunderstanding. Not just to say WHAT, but WHY. To engage with our society and give REASONS.

Number 1 reason in survey why people don’t come to church = ‘They are not answering the questions we’re asking.’

The precondition for giving a defense is not how many books you’ve read. It’s ‘in your hearts, set apart Christ as Lord.’ That requires WORK.  Sanctify him,’ set him apart.’ Then you get the courage to break through the fear. When we start doing this, we’ll get into trouble. In Acts, the gospel is on trial time and again. The apostles were put on trial. Laws these days from Europe etc are looking to outlaw anything that looks like an exclusive claim, we’ll have to contend that Jesus is THE way.

Paul’s answer when under pressure? He described how he encountered the risen Christ. He was NOT a believer, but then he met Christ. So he stands before Agrippa (who accuses him of being under the God delusion – this is not a new challenge!) and gives his testimony and then says, ‘I’m not insane, what I am saying is TRUE and REASONABLE.’ Our world resembles Paul’s world more than any other age has, politically, philosophically and socially.

FAITH in God is reasonable. Faith in atheism is not. Atheists don’t regard what they have as faith. They think faith is an evil. Dawkins damns it, ‘Faith not based in evidence, is the principle vice of any religion.’ The clamour is for the eradication of religion because it doesn’t want to look at the evidence.

The claim of new atheists goes like this:

Faith = belief nor based on evidence

Science = belief based on evidence.

Many accept that without question. But Faith can be evidence based.

We have to look at terms. Dawkins definition of faith is wrong! Oxford English Dictionary. Faith = from Fides. Trust at its heart. Pistis (Greek) = trust. Faith = “Belief = trust. Confidence. That which produces belief, evidence and trust in it.” And this is how we usually think of the word. People used to believe in banks. But they showed there is not much basis to trust them with your money. If you are going to trust anyone, you have to have evidence or you are a fool.

Faith/trust/ belief. The Question is – what’s the evidence for it?

People say, “I won’t believe anything unless you can prove it.’ But in a mathematical sense? Logical? You’ll have infinite regress. It’s ONLY available in pure maths. Nowhere else is proof in that narrow sense. Not certainty. But in ordinary life, we have trust enough to put our life on it. Cf Flying a plane. Trusting your wife.

When you leave your field of expertise, you must check with the experts. What Dawkins/ Hitchens call and dismiss as faith = what we’d call ‘Blind faith.’ And that is of course dangerous, especially when linked with autocratic religious structures.

Is the faith required by the Christian system unreasonable?

Why was gospel of John written? In order that belief can be BASED on it. These statements are based in historical reality.

Paul at Mars Hill did not offer the resurrections as PRODUCT of faith, but a REASON for it, a basis. The resurrection as a fact is the basis on which the Christian can trust in Christ as the Son of God. Not a leap in the dark, but a step into the light, based on evidence.

It’s useful to notice that we use faith followed by  THAT or IN.

Faith in my wife

Faith that London is the capital of England.

One = faith in a fact. One = in a person. You usually need more evidence to trust a person than a fact.

So as Christians we don’t just have faith in a theory, or a worldview (it is all that) but its faith in a person.  A husband on wedding day has faith enough to trust in his wife, without knowing everything. We don’t know everything about God, but we have enough to get started – and as the relationship develops, so does the trust.  Trusting in relationships is multi levelled. Shared interests, etc – multi-orbed. Faith in God is too. There is evidence of all kinds. Can be built up. So the first thing that’s wrong with thenew atheists view of faith is that wrong.

Dawkins has said in discussion with Lennox, “Atheists have no faith.” The answer to that? “So you don’t believe it then?”

Hitchens says: “Our principles are not a faith, our beliefs are not a belief.’ Hmmmm….

They put all religions in the same pot, because they are all dangerous aberrations. That’s a failure of scholarship, because it’s obvious that not all religions are the same.

One of the main accusations new atheists make is that God is communicated out of the barrel of a gun, leads to violence etc. How do we answer that?  Look at the stance of Christ. Jesus was accused of terrorism by Pilate. That’s why his trial is so important. And he was exonerated. ‘My kingdom is not of this world, otherwise my followers would fight.’ The message you can’t defend with a gun is the one where you command them to follow the Prince of peace.

They also point out the unreasonableness of Christian faith, and say atheism had nothing to do with the massacres of Stalin, Mao etc., blame everything on God and nothing on atheism. We need to know our history!  Dawkins says he cannot imagine an atheist who would bulldoze a cathedral. Well Stalin used dynamite. Beware revisionist history.

Lennox endorses David Robinson’s book ; The Dawkins letters.

Also http://www.publicchristianity.com/historians response, the new atheists are outside their area and trying to rewrite history.

Dawkins says, “We are all atheists with regard to Odin and Zeus. It’s causing no problem to be A-Woden, what’s the problem with A-theist.’  He says its a negative and so can’t harm anyone. It’s no accident that he concentrates on A-Theism, denial of God, because he has a naturalist agenda.

In terms of the unreasonableness of faith he calls in the psychologists. However, Andrew Sims (President Royal college of Psychiatry) has written, “Is faith delusional?” and states that religion doesn’t damage but greatly helps mental health!

Freud saw faith = projection of your longing for a father.

Manfred Lutz says, ‘If there is no God, the Freudian explanation is spot on. But if there is a God, Freud will also show that there is in atheism a great desire for there NOT to be a God!’  That doesn’t deal in any case with the question, ‘Is there a God or not?’ For that, we have to look at EVIDENCE.

The idea that faith does not appear in science is wrong. All scientists are believers. They have to trust. They are commited to the idea that the universe is rationally intelligible, otherwise science is useless. The one incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it is comprehensible ‘ (Einstein).

So it’s not science vs religion. It’s materialism vs theism. Dawkins wants to argue science must lead to materialism. Not so!

Some say our brains are end product of a mindless process. From that, we get beliefs. Why trust that proposition? Logically incoherent to say that. You can’t do any science until you believe there’s reasonableness. it’s that belief in God which has inspired modern science.

Ford Car or Henry Ford. Which do you believe in? Choose! (that’s what the atheists want to say)

Ford car = laws of combustion.

Ford = designer and maker.

Two different categories!

The old chestnut is, “Who created the creator?” and so on…

Well you are there thinking about a created God, by definition. You are thinking of a created being to start with.

We agree, created Gods are a delusion. (idols). But there is an ETERNAL God.

You can choose to disbelieve that there is an eternal God.

You believe the universe created you? Who created your creator?!

The materialist’s ultimate reality – mass energy created everything. We believe God did it. Look at the evidence.


Doug Addison on Prophetic Evangelism

November 8, 2009

What a great night at Ivy Manchester!
As promised – here are my notes from Doug’s teaching tonight.
The talk will be up on the church website for download in a couple of days.

People say ‘I’m spiritual, not religious’
The world has changed, evangelism hasn’t caught up.
This is an addition to the toolkit: Prophetic Evangelism. 2 scary words!
He’s been PRACTISING this for years.
If we have a good product, with eternal benefits – but people don’t want it, we need a marketing meeting!

We have had good intentions – but that’s not enough.
We have to become missionaries to the UK.
What do missionaries do? Figure out what people already believe. Study the language and the culture – fit the message into where people are. Not changing the message, just changing the way you share it.

Most people are open to Jesus, and to the power of God. We have to come up with ways to connect with people.
Today, if people are spiritual, that’s half way home – cos God is spiritual – and he’s in a good mood! He’s really into loving people.

People say, ‘Do you believe Jesus is the only way?’
(Jn 14;6) – how do they know that verse? Someone else told them – ‘How to get a Christian off your back.’
Because people value choice. They value making choices.
To connect, you don’t major in what they don’t believe; because they’ll shut you out & not listen to the rest.

Look at the context of John 14:6
He’s having a meeting with the insiders group there. Not his preaching message to the world.

There was a time when we just had to draw them back to their Christian memory, in most of our society, there’s no memory of Christianity.

So if they ask, emphasise the WAY: ‘You’re on your own journey, you need to find that out for yourself.’

Not everyone who followed Jesus believed in him.
We need to let people follow.
So when we hear from God (which we should – we got an upgrade a while back – the prophetic is back).

WAY – TRUTH – LIFE = a three step process.
Show them the way, the truth takes care of itself, & we end up leading them to life.

In NT – they were followers of the WAY. Show people the way!
Jesus at a wedding- doesn’t give them a message or a Messiah- gives them what THEY think they need – the wine.
Give them what they need, time, love, service.

Doug found that decisions don’t necessarily make disciples.
Used to be people would make a decision then get an experience. Now people now want an experience and then they make a decision.

Look up the encounters where Jesus & disciples met unbelievers –
Eg Jn 1:47f When Jesus saw Nathaniel coming toward him, he said, “Here is a true descendant of our ancestor Israel. And he isn’t deceitful.” “How do you know me?” Nathanael asked. Jesus answered, “Before Philip called you, I saw you under the fig tree.”
Nathanael said, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God and the King of Israel!”

How do you KNOW me?

2 words of knowledge. It’s not that tough – all he told him was, ‘you’re an honest man.’

Word of knowledge = something about now, that gets impact. Encouragement. Opens people up to the gospel.
Word of wisdom = something that sounds too smart to be you
Word of prophecy = something about the future.
If you’re in the shallow end, it’s only 2 kicks to the deep end. Anyone can give encouraging words from God. It’s so easy, you’ll think you’re making it up, until they start to cry.

1) Use the gift to find the people. Wait for one who looks open. ‘I just took a course in encouragement, can I try it with you?’
2) We’re much more anointed OUTSIDE than inside.
3) People need to be encouraged everywhere!

John 4:16
He’s been talking about worship. At Jacobs well.
Jesus told her, “Go and bring your husband.” The woman answered, “I don’t have a husband.” “That’s right,” Jesus replied, “you’re telling the truth. You don’t have a husband. You have already been married five times, and the man you are now living with isn’t your husband.”
Not judging here!
He’s finding something to COMMEND. She’s got a mixed up relational life, but he finds something to commend – she’s honest!

If the enemy is having a go at you – it’s because the Lord has a great destiny in line for you!

We see people being pushed down – but the Lord has a great destiny for them – what they need is the power of Spirit to live it out.

Think about a person in your life who really needs God the most. Someone messed up. Now picture them saved, and filled with the Spirit. What ministry would they be drawn to? Worship? Evangelism? Finance?
Pray for them, see them as God sees them – potential.
This is what Jesus was doing.
See yourself like this.

People these days are into reality tv.
2 types:
1) You’re voted out – mean spirit, negative,
2) Makeover shows. Positive.
We need to have extreme prophetic makeover. Pimp my life! Do things to encourage people.

It worked for Jesus. A lot of Samaritans in that town put their faith in Jesus because the woman had said, “This man told me everything I have ever done.”

Jesus was only ever angry at religious people who pretended to know God but didn’t love.

OLD WAY vs New Way
Program vs Organic
Head knowledge about Bible vs No bible value, but may still love god
Prove it vs Experience it
Jesus is the only way vs Choices
Must pray the prayer vs Prayed it- no change
Truth!! Vs Absolute truth
Get conversions! Vs want to be loved.

We have to walk with people. Become the Bible for them.

What people think of Christians
Judgemental, narrow minded, out of touch, irrelevant, intolerant, no fun. After your money.
That’s not us.
We have to redefine this, one person at a time.

Tipping point; Malcolm Gladwell. 30 people can cause great change.
Paul stayed 3 or 4 years in various people’s

MASH units
MOBILE, ARMY, SURGICAL, HOSPITALs.

We need to be churches like that. By love and encouragement.

1. Get the wall down- word of knowledge. Something positive. Dream. Practical. Kindness.

2. Go from head to heart – Notice things they value. Clothing, tattoos, piercings. Music. Ring tones.

3. THEIR felt needs. Loved, listened to, practical help.

FOCUS on their experiences, gifts, calling/ passions.

Jesus operated in all the gifts the disciples did.
You should. Holy Spirit toolbelt. Pull out what‘s needed.
Practice!
The more you practice any gift, the better you get.

God is speaking all the time. Find something positive in their lives, because God created them.

You are strategically placed – and you didn’t even know it.

It’s the still small voice – learn to trust it.

If you see the –ve over people, you get a check in your spirit = a discerning spirit. How do you use that?
You’re seeing satan’s will. Don’t tell them satan’s will. Tell the opposite. To destroy the works of the enemy: ‘I can see that you’ve been under attack, been through a rough time – but God…!’

FLIP IT!
The kingdom of God is extremely positive.

Put words of knowledge into a sentence that makes sense to them. “When I look at you I see…’

Go out in twos or threes. Encourage people, and if you’re able to – tell them about God. Col 4:4 Please pray that I will make the message as clear as possible. When you are with unbelievers, always make good use of the time. Be pleasant and hold their interest when you speak the message. Choose your words carefully and be ready to give answers to anyone who asks questions.

Be salty – don’t throw salt in their wounds. Not insider language. Don’t speak Christianese.

Honour the process. Coming to Jesus happens over time. Find out where they are. Ask fact finding questions.
‘You seem spiritual.’
- I grew up in church
- I pray all the time
- I mediate…
Gauge where they are at and meet them there.

There’s an ANGEL in evangelism.
We need to bring the angel back into evangelism. Be the angel.
Ask God for the supernatural encounters!


One thing leads to another

September 7, 2009

Ahab “considered it trivial to commit the sins of Jeroboam”

So what? Probably doesn’t mean much to you?

Last night we started a sermon series looking at the life of the fiery prophet Elijah (You can download talks from Ivy Manchester on itunes or from our website).

I said that in order to understand him you have to understand the culture and time he was living in (and to understand yourself you have know that too). Often we live unaware of our context – like a fish doesn’t know it’s wet!

Elijah lived in a very dark place, spiritually. It had been the jewel of God’s plan, the nation of Israel – intended to shine brightly for all nations, but for years now the lights were all going out. King Ahab was despicably evil, and his wife Jezebel made him look like a softy.

His story links back to Jeroboam, seven kings back, 58 years beforehand. Jeroboam who’d served Solomon refused to serve his son, and set himself up as king over ‘the ten tribes’ (The first North/ South divide?). Fearful that the people he now ruled might go to the temple in Jerusalem to worship, and to protect his position, Jeroboam set up ‘alternative worship.’ Not the kind where everyone sniffs incense, walks in a labyrinth and meditates on Kum By Yah over and over, but the kind that involved worshipping baby cows made of gold.

Anyone looking at their Bible would have known that worship of a golden calf wasn’t going to go down well with the real God. But he wasn’t bothered about that book. He wanted to do what was popular, what pleased the crowds, what kept them all coming. That’s what mattered most to Jeroboam, building his own kingdom.

He said to the people, “It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem. Here are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.

He didn’t deny the reality of God, but in order to please the people, he mixed the worship of God with elements of popular paganism of his day. After all, it’s all the same God really… whatever works for you…

He made up a religion of convenience that suited his lifestyle. Under Jeroboam anyone could be a priest – it didn’t matter what God’s word says. As long as their hearts are right. And worship – anyone can worship, whenever and however they want – as long as they’re sincere… it doesn’t matter what God’s word or his prophets said. Because God’s really like a big cuddly baby cow who’s just there to provide for us and help us, and he never requires anything from us…

There’s a word for this. APOSTASY. From two Greek words that mean ‘Stand apart.’ He stood apart from what God had said, made his own way. And the nation followed. There are consequences of bad leadership, in a family, in business and in a nation.

His policy was in place for all the kings of Israel who followed him for generations! Jeroboam ends up being known as ‘the man who led Israel to sin.’

Principle? One thing leads to another. By the time of Ahab worship was by cultic sex with prostitutes, and child sacrifice.A downward spiral.

There were some good Kings in Judah, but not in Israel. And when I say bad leadership or good – what do i mean? Well the way the Bible defines good is this, time and again, the assesment boils down to whether they followed the Word of God, or made their own way apart from him.

For example, in the kingdom of Judah – King Asa “He did what was right in the eyes of the Lord and walked in his ways.” That’s what caused the nation to prosper.

But in Israel it just goes from bad to worse and the lights keep getting put out one by one until you get to a guy called King Omri (1 Kings 16:25) – the verdict? The worst yet!

Until his son, Ahab comes along – he will only listen to prophets who tell him what he wants to hear, and he considers the sins of his ancestor Jeroboam to be trivial.

When things occur in our generation that previous generations would have been appalled at, watch out!

Warning__Morals_are_lower_than_they_appear-93qiue-s

If you’re a Brit – you might remember Mary Whitehouse?

When I was a teenager she was lampooned and became a byword for out of touch prudishness, but she was an Elijah for her day; I wonder what she would think of the sins that are nowadays considered trivial in our land? The effect that has on children?

Ahab worshipped Baal, the god of sex and convenience and money – and the children were sacrificed to him. Who is responsible for the state of our nation’s morality today? We are. The people who allow downward spirals to drift further down without raising an objection or even an eyebrow. The church has too often stood by rather than stood up to be counted, because the spirit of the age permits no tolerance of anyone who questions its edicts.

The spiritual darkness deepens and becomes tangible from one generation to another – until the Lord God puts the lights on. So Elijah (a person like us) stood before the king to declare, “The LORD lives – before Him I stand!” may the Elijahs rise again!


Daniel Fast : Consistency Counts

June 9, 2009

Guess who the most consistent golfer is? That’s right – the Tiger. Take a look at the perfect swing right here -

Consistency counts – but how do we achieve it?

On day 2 of the Daniel fast and a couple of people have been in touch to ask whether chocolate counts as a vegetable. Someone suggested a chocolate orange was okay! I have managed to lay off tea and just go with hot water instead – and I love my tea! But it feels great to say no to something good, to say yes to Someone better.

I noted yesterday how from being a young lad, Daniel had a great love for God, and as long as he stayed intimately close to God, Daniel was given the wisdom he needed to be  consistently wise. And it all comes down to our practices in the end. Your practices will make you, or break you.

Tiger Woods started when he was 18 months old and uses what he calls the “over-kill method” when practicing. And it’s not just any practice. He repeats perfect swings until he burns them into his mind and body. Then, even under the most intense tournament pressure, those swings hold up. That’s how consistency is built, one practice at a time. The secret of success is in your PRACTICES. What you do in practice, you’ll do under pressure. And I’m not just talking about sport am I?

We’ll look at some of the key practices Daniel kept up, that helped him be consistently wise.

1) Go for God.

Daniel didn’t always have it easy. But whatever he faced, Daniel always kept in mind the size of his God, not the size of the problem. At one point he stood before the emperor – the most powerful man in the world at the time – but because he was used to being in the presence of God, he wasn’t freaked about that. He said to the King, “My God holds your breath in his hands, and owns all your ways…”

His friends were just the same. When the king wanted to make them bow down like everyone else in Chapter 3 they looked at the massive gold statue he’d made, and said, “Sorry your majesty, but our God’s a lot bigger than that.”

The Bible (Ps 110) says, “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. That doesn’t mean we have to be scared of God, if we know Him as Father. It means we have to have a right perspective. That God’s always Sovereign, in charge, all powerful, holy and good – he’s God – and we’re not.

I love Daniel 10. The young boy has become the old man by now, he has been praying and fasting – that’s his practice - and he’s seen visions of angels, but it’s like that’s not enough for him. Daniel starts off praying for understanding – he wants to understand the visions – not just have them, and he always wants to see and connect with God. it’s not clear whether he gets angels here or possibly a touch from the Lord of hosts…

one having the likeness of a man touched me and strengthened me. And he said, “O man greatly beloved, fear not! Peace be to you; be strong, yes, be strong!”

When you pray, when you worship – do you go for GOD?! Surely we want to encounter GOD!? We don’t just want answers – we want the One who is the Answer. We want His face not just his hand. We don’t just pray to meditate and think things through ourselves . Of course we want understanding and revelation and strength and wisdom and answered prayer– but not for their own sake!

We want GOD! Daniel CONNECTED to GOD! God who is the source of revelation about what had happened to him, and what was happening to him, and what would happen.

Don’t just pray through a list – even a good and worthy list – go for God’s face!

Whatever you’re going through – practice this – keep the size and the love and the POWER of God in mind. Whoever rules the nations’ governments, in Babylon or Britain – God’s on his throne! And if he appeared here so we got just a GLIMPSE of his majesty and awesome glory, we’d be trembling too! But then he’d touch you, and tell you – “You are deeply loved!”


God always speaks to me through this!

May 13, 2009

and ever since I first read it, I knew – it’s a Pioneer’s life for me!

PioneerCowboyPostCard

“According to Wes Seeliger in his book Western Theology, there are two kinds of people, two visions of life. The first sees life as a possession to be carefully guarded. They are called Settlers. The second sees life as a wild, fantastic gift. They are called Pioneers.

These two types give rise to two kinds of theology: Settler Theology and Pioneer Theology. Settler Theology is an attempt to answer all the questions, define and housebreak some sort of Supreme Being, establish the status quo on golden tablets in cinemascope. Pioneer Theology is an attempt to talk about what it means to receive the strange gift of life. The Wild, Wild West is the setting for both theologies.

In Settler Theology, the Church convenes at the Courthouse. It is the center of town life. The old stone structure dominates the town square. Its windows are small, and this makes things dark inside. Within the courthouse walls, records are kept, taxes collected, and trials are held for the bad guys. The courthouse is the symbol of law, order, stability, and most importantly, security.

In Pioneer Theology, the Church moves in a Covered Wagon. It’s a house on wheels, always on the move. The Covered Wagon is where the pioneers eat, sleep, fight, love, live and die. It bears the marks of life and movement—it creaks, it’s scarred with arrows and bandaged with bailing wire. The Covered Wagon is where the action is. It moves toward the future, trying not to get bogged down in old ruts. The old Wagon isn’t comfortable, but the pioneers don’t seem to mind. They are more into adventure than comfort.

In Settler Theology, God is the Mayor. He is slick and fancy like a dude from back East. His office is on the top floor of the Courthouse. He looks out over the whole town, as his eagle eye ferrets out the smallest details of town life. No one actually sees him or gets close to him. He keeps his blinds drawn. But since there is order in the town, who can deny that he is really there? The Mayor is predictable and always on schedule. The Settlers fear the Mayor, but look to him to clear the payroll and keep things running. Peace and quiet are the Mayor’s main concerns, so he sends the Sheriff to check out any Pioneers who might ride into town.

In Pioneer Theology, God is the Trail Boss. He is rough and rugged, full of life. He chews tobacco, drinks straight whiskey. The Trail Boss lives, eats, sleeps, and fights with his people. Their well‑being is his concern. Without him, the Wagon wouldn’t move and living free would be impossible. The Trail Boss will get down in the mud with the Pioneers to help push the Wagon, which often gets stuck. He prods the Pioneers when they get soft and want to turn back. His fist is an expression of his concern.

In Settler Theology, Jesus is the Sheriff. He’s the guy who is image sent by the Mayor to enforce the rules. He wears a white hat, drinks milk, outdraws the bad guys. The Sheriff decides who gets thrown in jail. There is a saying in town that goes: those who follow the rules and believe that the Sheriff is sent by the Mayor, they won’t stay in Boothill when it comes their time.

In Pioneer Theology, Jesus is the Scout. He rides out ahead of the Wagon to find out which way the Pioneers should go. The Scout faces all the dangers of the Trail and suffers every hardship. He is even attacked by the Indians. Through his words and actions he reveals the true intentions of the Trail Boss. By following the Scout, those on the Trail learn what it means to be a true Pioneer.

In Settler Theology, the Holy Spirit is the Saloon Girl. Her job is to comfort the Settlers. They come to her when they feel lonely or when life gets dull or dangerous. She tickles them under the chin and makes everything okay again. The Saloon Girls also squeals to the Sheriff whenever someone starts disturbing the peace.

In Pioneer Theology, the Holy Spirit is the Buffalo Hunter. He imagerides along with the Covered Wagon and furnishes fresh meat for the Pioneers. They would die without it (and him). The Buffalo Hunter is a strange character—sort of a wild man. The Pioneers never can tell what he’ll do next. He scares the hell out of the Settlers. He has a big, black gun that goes off like a cannon. He rides into town on Sunday morning to shake up the Settlers. You see, every Sunday morning, the Settlers have a little ice cream party in the Courthouse. With his gun in hand, the Buffalo Hunter sneaks up to one of the Courthouse windows. Then he fires a tremendous blast that rattles the whole Courthouse. Men jump out of their skin, women scream, dogs bark. Chuckling to himself, the Buffalo Hunter rides back to the Wagon Train shooting up the town as he goes.

In Settler Theology, the Pastor (the clergyman) is the Banker. Within his vault are locked the values of the town. He is a highly respected man. He has a gun, but keeps it hidden in his desk. He feels that he and the Sheriff have a lot in common. After all, they both protect the Bank.

In Pioneer Theology, the Pastor is the Cook! He doesn’t furnish the meat. He just dishes up what the Buffalo Hunter provides. This is how he supports the movement of the wagon. He sees himself as just another Pioneer who has learned to cook. The Cook’s job is to help the Pioneers pioneer. He doesn’t confuse his job with that of the Trail Boss, the Scout, or the Buffalo Hunter.

In Settler Theology, the Christian is the Settler. He fears the open, unknown frontier. His concern is to stay on good terms with the Mayor and keep out of the Sheriff’s Way. “Safety First” is his motto and the Courthouse is his symbol of security, peace, order, and happiness. He keeps his money in the bank. The Banker is his best friend. The Settler never misses an ice cream party.

In Pioneer Theology, Christians are Pioneers. They are persons of daring, hungry for new life. They ride hard, and know how to use a gun when necessary. The Pioneer feels sad for the Settlers and tries to tell them of the joy and fulfillment of life on the Trail. They die with their boots on.

In Settler Theology, Faith is trusting in the safety of the town; obeying the Law and keeping their noses clean; and believing the Mayor is up there in the Courthouse.

In Pioneer Theology, Faith is the spirit of adventure; the readiness to move out; the willingness to risk everything on the Trail. Faith is obedience to the restless voice of the Trail Boss.

In Settler Theology, Sin is breaking one of the Town’s ordinances.

In Pioneer Theology, Sin is wanting to turn back.

In Settler Theology, Salvation lies in living close to home and going to the Courthouse.

In Pioneer Theology, Salvation rests in being more afraid of a sterile life in Town, than of death on the Trail. Pioneers find joy in the thought of another day to push on into the unknown Wilderness. They realize their Salvation by trusting the Trail Boss and following his Scout, while living on the meat provided by the Buffalo Hunter.

The Settlers and the Pioneers portray in cowboy-movie language the People of the Law and the People of the Spirit. In the time of the historical Jesus, the guardians of the ecclesiastical setup, the scribes and the Pharisees and the Sadducees, had hunkered down in the Courthouse and enslaved themselves to the Law. This not only enhanced their prestige in society, it also gave them a sense of Security. Man fears the responsibility of being free. It is often easier to let others make the decisions or to rely up the letter of the Law. Some men want to be slaves.

[excerpted from The Lamb and The Lion by Brennan Manning, 1988, pgs. 23-27]