Tag Archives: Religion

Apr 06 2013
1 Comment
Christianity, Discipleship, Evangelism, Faith, Jesus, Manchester, Prayer, Religion, Theology

Why the Great Commission has stopped me ‘Evangelising’ and ‘Discipling’ people.

Matt 28:16 So the eleven disciples went to Galilee to the mountain Jesus had designated. When they saw him, they worshiped him, but some doubted. Then Jesus came up and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Jesus here is sending people out to tell people about Him. To be witnesses for him. WITNESSES. Unfortunately, this whole ‘witnessing/evangelism’ idea can become about formulas, or something that makes people feel guilty because they’re not good at. They don’t like the idea of handing out leaflets out in the street or going door to door. If that IS your thing great, but a lot of people rule themselves out because they think witnessing has been turned into processes of mithering people. Or trying to argue.

I saw a status on Facebook that read ‘”I will now become a Christian on the basis of your arguments and dogmatic presentation of key doctrines.’ Said nobody, ever.”

And I know people who’d say they follow Jesus 100% but… they don’t know enough Bible or enough answers to all the clever objections people come out with, and they don’t want people to think they’re arrogant so they think they’d better not get involved either. But that’s not how this started.  From that day on the mountain till now, it’s not what you know, it’s WHO you know.

By the way, that means it’s not being arrogant either, because Christians DO have knowledge that most people don’t have, but it’s a different kind of knowledge. It’s not ‘I know something you don’t know.’ It’s SOMEONE. Because of Easter Sunday, because of Jesus being ALIVE – it’s a person you’ve met. And you have the dignity to share that you know Him.

I tried to sum this up in a tweet this week and just about squeezed it into 140 characters. Because of the resurrection, evangelism isn’t convincing someone of something you know, it’s introducing someone you know wants to meet them. 

Now literally, Jesus says. ‘Therefore, GOING – make disciples…’ We have made it a command, so people feel guilty and might do it. You have to say it in a dramatic deep voice.‘Therefore GO!’

But it’s not a command. It’s the present participle to be technical, like ‘As you go…’ Like it’s the most natural thing in the world. ‘As you go, make disciples.’ That’ll be the natural spin off from people interacting with you. Because Jesus is with you always as you go. But we somehow made this natural thing a list of techniques to get stressed out about or Bible passages to memorise, to make CONVERTS. Jesus didn’t ever say make converts. He says ‘make DISCIPLES.’

What does that mean?  Disciples?

l plates

LEARNER.

That’s all it means. Whenever you see the word disciple in the Bible, you could translate it straight as ‘Learner.’ They had the L plates on.

Jesus sent them out into the world, with L plates on. What a responsibility he put in their hands! Jesus had written no books, built no organisation; there were no physical buildings they owned, no monuments left to commemorate Him. He entirely placed the future of His earthly work in the hands of His disciples. His LEARNERS. He had no other plan. He HAS no other plan!

While I’m shooting sacred cows –  I’m disturbed that the church has made DISCIPLING a new kind of industry in the last 5 years or so. Jesus came to make profound things simple and the church always does the opposite of that.

Everyone’s doing conferences or writing books with plans and formulas to ‘disciple’ people. As if it’s a verb – not a noun.

He disciples him, she disciples her – we all get in these little groups where this person knows more than this person; so I get to disciple you or to be discipled by him or her. And the extreme end of it is where someone gets to feel very important and wise for being ‘a discipler,’ while someone else – the disciplee, gets controlled.

I’ve read many of those books and been to the conferences. Of course there’s good stuff in it too, and it’s a reaction to laissez faire methods which meant people didn’t mature in faith. But something still makes me a bit uneasy. Because I don’t think lots of what they write about there, has little to do with what Jesus was talking about here.

I had a great chat the other day with someone who was asking about whether I should be their ‘covering’ – and we ended up agreeing that’s probably Jesus’ job. All authority has been given to HIM after all. He’s the head. We’re all the body.

The creeping danger is we end up becoming or gathering or making disciples of MEN rather than disciples of Jesus. Because like evangelism and a lot of other things we’ve made ‘discipling’ seem very complicated. It’s not really.

Christianity isn’t complicated! It’s not EASY, but it’s not complicated.

These notes form part of my talk for tomorrow morning at Ivy Manchester (Kingsway). I’ll be more constructive than this – promise. There’s probably just enough here to get some people annoyed enough to download the full talk which will be available on our website next week. http://www.ivymanchester.org/podcasts

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Mar 23 2013
Bible, Christianity, Discipleship, Faith, Father God, Healing, Heaven, Jesus, Prayer, Religion, stress., Theology, Worship

‘Could You Not Watch One Hour?’ – Er… to be honest… no.

Matthew 26:36 Then Jesus went with them to a place called Gethsemane; and he said to his disciples, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.” 37 He took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be grieved and agitated. 38 Then he said to them, “I am deeply grieved, even to death; remain here, and stay awake with me.”39 And going a little farther, he threw himself on the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet not what I want but what you want.”40 Then he came to the disciples and found them sleeping; and he said to Peter, “So, could you not stay awake with me one hour? 41 Stay awake and pray that you may not come into the time of trial;[e] the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” 42 Again he went away for the second time and prayed, “My Father, if this cannot pass unless I drink it, your will be done.” 43 Again he came and found them sleeping, for their eyes were heavy. 44 So leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words. 45 Then he came to the disciples and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and taking your rest? See, the hour is at hand, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

Years ago, when I was new to church – not long a Christian, our church put on a musical about Easter. It was pretty awful mostly. They had an old guy sing mournfully a hymn solo over and over… ‘Could you not watch one hour?’’

Over and over…

I’d invited someone to come with and I did pray a bit, mostly thanking God  that they hadn’t come…

But I also felt so bad… about prayer.

I felt so GUILTY about prayer! I was always so rubbish at it.  Anyone else?

Maybe it was working shifts in the Police? No!  It happened a lot at theological college too - maybe it was Taize chants or something, but I would regularly know just how Peter and the guys felt with those heavy eyes and often fall asleep in the prayer times in church. Head on pew in front. Trying to focus. Daydreaming away as we all just really prayed Lord for all the really lovely children Lord in the really lovely world Lord… on more than one occasion waking to see a pool of slobber below me…

Could you not watch one hour?? 

I was struggling to break through to five minutes.

I got a book called ‘The Hour That Changes The World,’ to help me pray an hour a day. Here’s how that says you get the breakthrough -

prayerwheel

Personal training for prayer! He shows you how to man up and push through an hour, splitting it up 5 minutes at a time.

‘GIMME 5!! GIMME ANOTHER 5!  Do me an Hour! Could you not do that?’

Well isn’t half an hour okay? No! What kind of a Christian are you?

‘Could you not watch, one hour with me..’ 

But I’m busy! I have all these other things going on. How do I get 25 hours in a day? I’m rubbish at praying!

So I got more and more books about prayer, all guaranteed to help me feel worse about my struggling prayer life.

Now some of you, this is your thing. You don’t understand why every Christian doesn’t find it easy to spend hours and hours in intercession.

You need to know – nobody likes you. You make us feel bad!! You make me feel guilty.

Then over the years as I’ve gone into church ministry somehow I picked up that preparing for sermons doesn’t count as praying, that’s work, not proper praying at all… (what?!)

So I had to do a lot extra… how?

Well get up an hour earlier!  All the mighty men of God do this… get up really early, apparently.

‘Could you not watch one hour…’ 

It felt fine, once or twice… but then I started to get grumpy. With my family, With myself. Even with God if I’m honest for bothering me at that time…

‘Could you not watch…’ NO!  I want to sleep Lord! I want to snuggle up..

(This is the first part of my notes for my talk tomorrow at Ivy MCR. I’ll put the rest up in the week). 

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Feb 09 2013
Bible, Discipleship, Faith, Jesus, leadership, philosophy, politics, Religion, Theology, wisdom, Work, Worship

James White – The Christian Mind (iDisciple conference WCAUK)

James Emery White – The Christian Mind

What is the modern (non Christian) mind?

1. MULTI-TRUTH

Pluralism. God’s like a mountain, all the religions are paths up the same mountain, and the names of God are all the same summit. Go to the multiplex, or home to Netflix, all those choices. This is NEW! Peter Berger – sociologist said Religion used to provide a sacred canopy over all of culture. Now that’s replaced by millions of umbrellas to stand under.

With the increase of options comes lots of choices of truths, all equally valid.

But if everything is true – nothing is true.

‘It’s raining.’ Either it is or isn’t. There’s a match with reality.

These days comparative religion teaches what is held in common with all religions. But you can’t be a Buddhist Christian. Ask the Dalai Lama! Their truth claims are opposite. It’s two different mountains. Same with Islam etc.

So, either you say ; someone’s right

or someone’s wrong

But you can’t say they are ALL right. That’s intellectually dishonest.

  1. TRUTHINESS

Facts don’t matter. How you feel matters. You can create truth for yourself, despite the facts. If I can convince a majority of others that’s true, it is. (Follow link for more)

2. WIKIALITY

We create our own reality, and that becomes fact for us all. There is no truth outside of what the majority want it to be. If we say 2 + 2 = 5 for us, then it does.(Follow link for more/source)

3. MISTAKERS

Nobody is a sinner. nobody sins. Sociology and psychology has pushed sin out. We are just mistakers. Or in fact there’s something good about why we did it. ‘I’m sorry you got offended…’ Nothing is wrong, wicked or evil – so..

4. MORAL RELATIVISM

Anything goes. If it makes you happy, morality is a personal choice and opinion. If you’re not hurting anyone – except judgmental people of course. They are the only wrong ones. Look at Christian Smith’s work on this.

Why contrast this mind with the Christian mind?

Well this is a little disingenious. The fact is – the modern mind has BECOME the Christian mind! We are UNDISCIPLED here!

When Jesus restated the Shema (when quoting it verbatim as a Rabbi was essential) he ADDED in loving God ‘with your MIND…’

Paul was clear how change happens. Romans 12. RENEW the mind. Continually don’t let the world adjust you so much you fit into it without thinking. We are mirroring it, not challenging. This is diabolical.

Christians have to retain a prophetic voice. that has to come from a prophetic MIND.

Prov 23:7 As a man thinks in his heart – so is he.

Harry Blamires, ‘There is no longer a Christian mind.’

We have to start thinking about the big issues of our day in the light of our faith. Not having a compartmentalised mind. Where over here you have your work life, here’s your daily reading, here’s a tweet, here’s a show… and your thinking about one doesn’t link to the other things.

So you can be a Christian, but not let that reflect that in how you think about science. About films you see, social media. Do you integrate these things in terms of a Christian worldview?

Eg., where did we come from?

There are actually very few answers.

By chance (Naturalism)

We don’t exist (Hindu)

We were created

If we believe the latter, then there is meaning, and someone outside of us to whom we are accountable and from whom we derive value. Look at how MLK challenged unjust laws in his letter from a Birmingham Jail. It was based on the value of humanity based on a law above human laws.

John Stott said our battle is ‘a battle of ideas.’

We take captive every THOUGHT to make it obedient to Christ.

OR we think like everyone else.

Thomas Cahill – ‘How the Irish saved civilisation.’ As the Roman empire fell to barbarism, the Irish took up the Labour of copying western literature. This was then taken back to Europe and they saved it! Without this Christian mind, they would also have lost the ability to think. By the way, Islam would have taken over Europe then too.

There are few Christian warriors of the mind these days. Most retreat into personal piety or good works. We follow someone who died at 33. Don’t live a life that doesn’t offend people, if we don’t live as if we don’t care if we’ll die, we will be impotent.

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Oct 28 2012
1 Comment
Bible, Church, history, Jesus, justice, Theology

Matty Hawthorne – What’s the point of church

These notes from Matty’s talk at our new gathering at Ivy Sharston form our discussion notes for this week’s grow groups

Church is about people with a purpose
It’s not about a building

Discuss:
Why do people HATE church?

One of the worst things Christians have done is make God boring

One Internet thread Matty found described
Christians as the most judgemental people

Read James 2:14-20

Maybe it’s not about being more relevant but more real.

We talk as if we have the monopoly on love – but the world wouldn’t agree.

We talk as if we have the monopoly on generosity.

People love to do good works and give.
We should encourage and recognise that.

Read Matt 5:14-16

What does ‘shine’ mean to you?
The message version says be generous with your lives.

It’s not (just) about the money!

Discuss
What makes a church a church?

The Bible word ‘oikos’ we translate in the Bible as household is really a gathering of community, extended family. Is your grow group an oikos?

What matters? 3 things

Love one another
Get the message of Jesus out there
Depending on God’s Spirit

Matty’s definition of church – a group of people gathered around Jesus, worshipping, Discipling and missioning.

Do you agree? What’s he missing? Anything?

We know Worshipping isn’t (just) singing.
So why do we call singing in church !a time of worship ‘ instead of a time of singing. Shouldn’t we just call it singing? Discuss.

Pray for your GG
Pray for every Ivy gathering – especially the new one at Sharston
Pray for every church, large and small, in our city – wherever and however they meet: that our lights shine in generosity and servanthood.

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Oct 13 2012
Bible, Center Church, Christianity, Church, Discipleship, Faith, Father God, Friends, history, Ivy Manchester Grow Group Notes, Jesus, Liberation Theology, Message Trust, Prayer, Religion, Theology, Tim Keller

We don’t need Divine Rehab but Divine Rescue

CENTER CHURCH – Tim Keller 

(Ivy GG notes – much of this material comes from today’s Ivy GG Leaders Day; thanks so much to all who made time to attend and for all you’re doing at ‘the church that meets at your house.’)

I have been very inspired as I read Tim Keller’s latest book, Center Church.

Check out the video summary at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_ZWlPUmVug

I downloaded it on my Kindle and began to highlight in yellow important phrases and concepts as is my usual practice, but there’s so much there it ended with what looks like a Christian version of the Yellow Pages!

DISCUSS:

Do you read regularly or is that something you find hard to make time for? If so how might you overcome that challenge so you keep on growing?

What have you read recently that’s encouraged, inspired or challenged you?

I outlined my understanding of what I’d read in the book to our leaders as follows:

The ‘model’ of church isn’t what’s most important.

We have at one end (D.F.) the DOCTRINAL FOUNDATION. What we believe – and as a result of that there will be some things we don’t believe too). We have a central core of belief – the Gospel – that doesn’t change.

DISCUSS: What is ‘The Gospel’? What’s the Good News as your group understands it?

Look up the word ‘gospel’ now in a concordance. Have you covered any of the elements of what the Bible says the gospel is?

Keller is keen to stress the gospel is good news about what’s been done FOR us.

As I read I thought, ‘It’s not divine rehab but divine rescue.’

Optional question: How might we twist this message and make it either ‘Good things we out to try to do’ (RELIGION) or ‘We don’t have to  live holy lives because God will forgive us anyway?’ (IRRELIGION).  Keller says the gospel is neither of those two, but something entirely different; GRACE! 

At the other end we have (M.E.) the MINISTRY EXPRESSION(S) – What we DO because of what we believe. Our church services in the club, cinema, warehouse, your home – are all ministry expressions. What else can you think of that are ministry expressions?  Ministry Expressions CAN change – whether we like change or not, it happens all the time. Some people get frightened by the pace of change and might want Ivy to just go back to doing things ‘the way we used to do them.’ Here’s a picture someone just sent me of that that might look like:

(Consider this a caption competition! Thanks to Paul Nattrass’ Dad.

Comment at the bottom -winner gets a free copy of either of my three books they’d like) 

In the centre is our (T.E) THEOLOGICAL VISION. – Who we ARE (because of what we believe).

Around Ivy we’d call that our DNA I suppose, it’s what makes us distinctive.

You can download the DNA here  if you want to look at it in more detail but from the earliest days – even before we had the banner and the pram push down the street, Ivy was founded to be Relevant to people far from God, Confident in God, Welcoming because nobody’s perfect and all things are possible, Outward-Looking because our God is on a mission in the world and wants us to join him, and Adventurous because nobody ever really met with Jesus and stayed the same.

DNA is important in how you replicate. Spend some time discussing our DNA.

Read John 20:10-18

Notice: Jesus said, “Go…and tell them, ‘I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” 

Tell the people next to you, ‘You have your Father’s DNA!’  We don’t need divine rehab but divine rescue has happened so now his Divine DNA is at work in you!

PRAY for one another.

Pray for me!

Pray for our church, and especially the new ‘Ministry Expression’ at Ivy Sharston – and please plan to join us for its launch Sept 21st 4pm at the Message, Lancaster House, Harper Rd, Sharston  M22 4RG

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Jul 10 2012
Church, Community, Faith, Graham Cooke, Grief, Ivy Manchester Grow Group Notes, Jesus, leadership, Manchester, prophecy, wisdom, Worship

The NEW you is the TRUE you!

For the next few weeks in Grow Groups at Ivy MCR we’re going to be revisiting the amazing teaching from Graham Cooke at our ‘Keys the City’ conference, based upon my notes. So much truth made it hard to capture it all, even though I’m pretty good at note taking!

WELCOME : Ice breaker – everyone tell a short story from the past – what you remember when you were 7 or 8.

WORSHIP – Take some time together to enjoy the presence of God.

WORD -

Key learning point: If we are going to become the people that God sees when he looks at us, it is essential that we understand the process he takes us through to become Christlike.

Read Rom 6:3-14 (use various translations, compare and contrast etc)

There’s a three-stage process of transformation;

Closure, Conversion and Commissioning.

Discuss – what do those three words mean to you? How would the group define them? Compare to a dictionary definition of each.

The people coming out of Egypt had been slaves for 400 years, they had victim thinking. That means they only knew how to moan and complain and whine! They were a rabble, and had to become a different people group. They had to get closure from the past, if they were to inherit their future.

Q: What betrays the fact that a person has a victim mindset? 

Q. Graham then said, ‘”The cross is CLOSURE for our old nature.” What does that mean? 

In the Body of Christ there are people who are present/past (always affected by that, looking back).
And there are those who are present/future.

Q. Which are you, usually? If you went to the conference share how this teaching helped identify that. 

When you are in Christ you don’t have a right to be wounded, but you have a right to be healed. No matter how many times some people (the past/present thinkers) get prayer, go for counselling etc., they can’t move on – it won;t happen without the old man being closed down. Whatever happened in the past, God’s view of it was that your past was too bad to be cured or cleansed – it had to be crucified!

So you’re dead. Your job – is to stay dead. Stop grave robbing. The date you got saved is on your headstone. The Holy Spirit is not working on your old stuff, he’s given you new life. Jesus died ONCE and FOR ALL.

Q: How do we encourage one another to die to the old life in order to live the new? 

Graham said, “If you find it easy to be offended, it proves you don’t have much of a relationship with the Holy Spirit who is the Comforter. Let HIM comfort you – then grow up from being a baby. Establish your real identity. Offences are a hindrance.”

Q. Are you easily offended? How do you move on? 

The identity issue is this: Don’t focus on what you’ve BEEN - Learn who you are becoming. We are Present/ future people when we like who we are now and who we are becoming!

Q. Do you like who you are now and who you’re becoming in Christ? If not – why not? 

The old has died. God doesn’t talk to us about our sin, he’s dealt with it. Otherwise he’d be treading underfoot the cross as if it wasn’t powerful enough. Christians need to get our story straight – about what Jesus has done for us. Because the enemy would love you to be kept in classes or counselling focused on the old nature. That suits his purpose. He wants you to be focused on what you’re not. Then you’ll never overcome. God is preoccupied with who you are (identity) and who you’re becoming (future).

You don’t become a new person by just changing your behaviour. You discover who you are – and God leads you out of that. This is what it means to be converted! The OLD PASSED AWAY. The new you is the true you.

Jesus comes to you and says, ‘Give me back what I died and went to hell for!’  That anxiety, worry, negatives, hatred – it belongs to me! And I can’t give you what I have for you till you give it to me. I am your Prince of Peace but you can’t have it while you’re holding onto that. Learn to abide in who I am, not in who you are. There is no conversion, without closure.

Q: Have you thought about conversion in these terms before? What new insights have you on it now?

God isn’t dealing with your sin nature – but your sin habits. You have to learn how to be loved, joyful, peaceful, etc. The good habits of the nature of Christ.

PRAY FOR ONE ANOTHER remembering, “He uses every situation in life to empower you to become like Jesus. If you’re in Christ, so are all your circumstances. They all have an answer in the Kingdom. So use them to grow up. God will turn it to good for us if we partner with him.”

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May 30 2012
Bible, Christianity, Church, Discipleship, Failure, Faith, history, Holy Spirit, Jesus, justice, leadership, Prayer, Religion, REVIVAL, Theology

@AlanHirsch – ReOrganise at #NWNLC12

Alan lives very near Azusa Street, where the Holy Spirit came up many very marginalised people, which went on to be a movement that changed the world. Jesus is the friend of the outcast and the sinners!

What practices stop the people of God being the people of God? Christianity got into China from Europe, and there were 2 million Christians, until Mao Tse Tung obliterated it. How? Threw out the leaders etc. Except for peasant people who were forced to rediscover themselves.

Compare that phenomenon with that of the early church. We have to ask, what am I doing that God has to take people like us out – to get what he wants done, done?

Don’t create systems that create dependences.

Go with the flow of what God wants done in us. He has what it takes. And he has given us agency!

We need to receive the gift of repentance, be immediately forgiven – then change our behaviours.

Rodney Stark & Roger Fink described how Methodism in the USA grew like mad, then plateaued – then dropped off a cliff.

It started with the Methodist circuit riders blazing trails. Radical pioneers.

Then they took them out and got them to study Latin, Greek and Hebrew, domesticated them.

And have been in decline ever since.

If it takes seven years to train in CofE as a leader – you have over-complicated it.

Our methodology is blocking us.

In China, 65% of the leaders are women. What does that tell us? 2 million to hundreds of millions in a very short space of time.

If I was the devil and I wanted to take the church out, I’d create an elite two -tier system with cleros (calling) being to clergy – rather than ALL God’s people being called. Yes, believe in leadership, but don’t take all the leadership on.

If you want to destroy a movement – don’t make it easily reproducible. The genius of Al Quaeda is that is so diverse – (I think there’s references to this in Starfish & Spider?).

Someone asks – ‘how do you make a case for the ordination of women?’

Well – what about making a case for ordination at ALL first off. It came out of Rome not the NT. It doesn’t honour Jesus to suppress anyone. Our practices are our problems.

The ‘Back to Jerusalem’ movement have this slogan: ‘Every believer is a church planter, every church is a church planting church.’ We all contain ecclesia…

So even if there’s only ONE believer left, he or she carries the seed to reproduce the whole movement. God got the whole universe going in a particular way. In every seed there’s a tree and in very tree there’s a forest – there’s POTENTIAL, contained. A spark has the potential for a fire.

This is how God sees us.

We need to see our churches like this.

The potential is HUGE!

It’s amazing what God can do with us. So a leader’s job is to bring EVERYONE into the game.

When we have thought of church planting, we have thought we have to extract people from the domains of everyday life. How about we rather plant church IN the domains of society, and let it break out in the arts and media and government.

Someone ask, ‘How do we control that?’

Trust God. He is able to lead!

God is not simply God of the church, but of all we are. We locate God in our structure (which is just one way to manifest His presence).

The best way to learn chess? Take the Queen out. Then you learn how to use all the other pieces.

Are we over-relying on the Sunday services? Even very good ones with great teaching.

To see how effective your sermons are, next week – ask, ‘What did I preach about three weeks ago?’

What if we put all that effort into disciple-making instead?

It takes time at the front end, but it’s the way of multiplication.

We believe in ‘the priesthood of all believers,’ but it’s largely a doctrine not a practice. As long as you’re wearing a collar it speaks louder than your words. You’re representing the institution. It’s very hard to get a person to understand something when their salary depends on not understanding it.

Look afresh at Ephesians, written as a general letter to a group of ordinary people, in various churches. This applies to everyone!  It’s Paul’s fundamental ecclesiology. Barth Jr called it ‘the constititional document of the church.’ And it was NOT written to leaders. This is for everyone.

Eph 4:1-6 UNITY (applies not just to early church but all time)

Eph 4:7-11

Grace was given to EACH ONE OF US.. (literally us all). Give = aorist indicative, very strong and applies to all 5.

To become… APEST – apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds, teachers..

So, ‘I wonder what I am?’

He’s given APEST – to build the church. To get us to Maturity.

It’s Jesus’ intention that we find our place in this framework.

Vs 12 – 16 applies to the church of all time, too – you have to torture the obvious meaning of the chapter to say the preceding verses don’t!

Why did we code out the Apostles and Prophets and Evangelists?

How many times in the Bible do you hear the word Pastor? ONCE – here.

Apostles. gets used 80+ times.

Teachers – we get told by James ‘not many of you should be!’

But isn’t it dangerous to release the APE?

Well the Shepherds and Teachers who have run the church so far have historically hurt people over doctrine a lot. Inquisition etc.

This is not a leadership text, it’s a ministry text.

Apostle = missio, sent. people who feel God pushing them out into the future, they’re boundary people. Could be Petrine (in system) or Pauline (outside system).

Prophets – sensitive to God, hear him, see him, speak for Him. Irritate everyone as result. They feel deeply for the poor.

Evangelists – recruiters to the cause, people buy in because of them.

Shepherds – Bring love and community.

Teachers - Bring wisdom and understanding. No sense of urgency. Systematic.

You need ALL FIVE to change the world.

These 5 are of course in the creation order – you see such people in all kids of organisations, but he’s given it to the redemption order.

Ministries are started by the generative (APE) – and sustained by the operative (ST – maintainers).

The problems are when the APES are exiled, and the STs take over. Every movement in decline takes this model.

Jesus has given us (the church) FIVEFOLD ministry so we might MATURE!

Jesus is all 5. We are meant to be His body. How else can we represent HIM in the world? You can’t run an organisation on having a HR department.

If you want a missional movement you have to have missional ministry to go with it.

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May 29 2012
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Bible, Faith, Holy Spirit, Jesus, leadership, Prayer, Work

@Alanhirsch – ReMission at #NWNLC12

Forge Mission Training Network is about training people differently for mission. A people movement for incarnational thinking.

Starts with the assumption that God has given us the answers we need. They are in us, if we reach deep.

We are inoculated in this culture. Lots of anti-bodies against the church keeping people from Jesus.

Someone said to him, ‘We can’t all be innovators!” Answer? You could be very innovative IF your life depended on it.

So think like a beginner, not an expert. We rise to the level of our incompetence (Peter principle). When you go out on a limb, you make a faith of leap.

You must have practitioners teach, because you cannot teach what you do not know, you cannot lead where you will not go. Don’t learn divorced from the context of their lives. Don’t extract people to teach, teach them where they are. (By the way this is why New Wine Training is fantastic!)

There is an accelerated decentralising of the church away from Christendom that has been happening. The church is no longer at the centre, so we have to think like missionaries again. And where you stand determines what you see. If you look at the edges and margins, that’s where we’re we are best anyway.

There are various cultural barriers to communicate the gospel, eg -

  1. Language – complex
  2. World view
  3. Race
  4. History

The culture has shifted on us, we’re living in a melting pot of culturally very distant and with varied barriers. We tend to want to reach to those nearest. But right in your back yard are people with significant sets of barriers. How do we get over or through them?

Attraction is fine for churches, unless in a missionary environment you are extracting them from their setting, which is there sphere of effectiveness.

Remember – We are the sent ones! When we’re asking THEM to come, we’re asking THEM to do the mission work. Coming to church is as strange for them as for you to turn up at a mosque.

So how do we become incarnational missionaries in the West?

The gospel travelled like a virus Jesus sneezed;

Missio = sent.

apostle = sent.

Why do we prefer Latin to Greek?

Missiology is to do with the doctrine of God, not the doctrine of the church.

It’s not that the church has a mission, but that the mission has a church.

God is a sending God! The Father sends the Son. The Spirit is a missionary spirit – and we’re sent too. Sentness authenticates us. We are a message tribe!

Read Galatians missiologically. Peter is hanging out with Gentiles and eating pig, having had the revelation of the pigs in a blanket. Pressure is put on him by the Judaizers. These guys need to be circumcised. And Paul has a fit – because he says no, they don’t have to take on a Jewish form, in a Galatian context. They need the gospel in the Galatian setting. This is all to do with incarnation.

God came among us, was in the neighbourhood for 30 years and nobody even noticed – what does that say about God? We’ve just made the incarnation about the baby. We’ve made it just about Christmas. But this is so subversive – he’s just THERE, without a cosmic light show to stun is into believing. Nobody saw it or got it. Why would you want to put formal Anglican churches in Africa, when they hardly even work here any more? Why put all that on them? Hot robes in boiling places?! What do we really need to put across and what do we need to levae behind to become missional and incarnational.

JESUS IS LORD – is simple enough a creed to help us discern what is right and true and protects us from syncretism.

He said ‘AS the Father sent me, so I send you.’ 

How was Jesus sent?

DOWN and DEEP. That’s how movements spread.

Fall in love with your city. Date it! That’s where incarnation starts, when we say, ‘You will be MY people.’ Moves us into the neighbourhood.

And you ADAPT there. If you take a highly standardised model, you’re self-limiting.

We are perfectly designed to achieve what we’re currently achieving.

If you’re declining it’s because you’re designed that way.

Pastoral organisations resist mission.

Britain is very multicultural. But we’re not reaching into and across the cultures. And we have to change our imaginations first.

How to engage in incarnational mission?

6 Ps:

PRESENCE – In Jesus God was FULLY present and identified with us.

PROXIMITY – He goes right were people are. Weddings, temple.

POWERLESSNESS  (Humility) learn from the people. They have much to teach you.

PREVENIENCE Full of Grace – and Truth – note the order…

PRIESTLY SERVICE

PATHOS – Incarnation of the heart. Just take their issues on you. Allow yourself to love who you are with.

PROCLAMATION – which the other Ps allow you to be able to speak into their lives. Don’t miss this one!

Examples?

Proximity – go where the people are.  First place is your home. Use it! Second place = your work. You spend a lot of life there. The third places, social spaces – your preferential place to hang out and gather.

Where is the church?

Your church becomes YOUR third place long enough, you stop connecting outside of it.

Prevenience – God has gone before. Preparatory Grace. Wesley had this as a cornerstone of his ministry. cf Convene – bring together. God is at work in every person, calling them to himself in Jesus Christ. all people have religious experiences, they just don’t know what to do with them. They are not Christophanies for them.

Priestly Service – Is our job to tell people how to behave? (He worked with a lot of people with various sexual issues and it was messing him up).

God said, ‘Well what do priests do?’ They act as mediators.

We introduce one person, to another (Jesus) – and then get out of the way. Guess what – you’ll  find he’s better at changing people than you are.

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May 29 2012
Bible, Christianity, Church, Discipleship, Faith, Holy Spirit, Religion, Worship

@Alanhirsch; ReDisciple – at #NWNLC12

the future’s so bright, he gotta wear shades..

The early church grew from 25,000 to 2 million in 200 years according to Rodney Stark. The Chinese church had a similar curve. What does that say about our church – it holds a mirror up to us. Last time we saw that these movements are obsessed with Jesus, who is Lord.

AND such movements are also always obsessed with disciple-making. If we are not, we’re weakest where we should be strongest. If we fail here, we fail everywhere. And in the West we have not done well! If we are not actively discipling, the culture will disciple us. We’ll be shaped by what’s advertised to get us to conform as consumers. We can’t be a church that advances the cause of Jesus without this.

What’s discipleship? Simply becoming MORE LIKE JESUS. and having communion with Him.

Jn 8:31-32

IF you hold to my teaching, IF you are really my disciples – THEN you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. 

It’s not just ‘truth sets you free’ – which is by the way the CIA’s motto. It’s about making disciples.

It took a long time to be allowed in to the early church you had to go through a catechism that could take years.

You raise the bar on discipleship

You lower the bar on how church is done (ecclesiology)

We’ve set up websites where you can just click on a mouse and you’re ‘saved.’ (??)

How about Jesus? He sets such a high bar the rich young ruler walks away because he won’t repent of his idolatry.

Jesus focused his energies on disciple-making. Because it’s critical to movements.

The fundamental of discipleship is to become like Jesus; the ultimate.

This EMBODIES our faith – (it’s not just a mind thing, notice). I’m to present my BODY as a living sacrifice.

Kierkegaard talked about ‘existence communication’= our lives speak what we believe. He hated Hegel’s platonic idealism, because his ideas were UNLIVEABLE – Hegel built this huge palace of ideas – but can you live in them? Can you live them out? He believed that all objective truth is only validated as such by your life. It’s not true for you really if you’re not living it out. Embodiment is critical!

Embodiment leads to exousia – authority. It comes out of you. Your authority comes out of who you are! It’s not a qualification or a seminary. It is all about who you are. If you’re not like Christ, you can’t have Christ-like leadership.

Start with Jesus. Then disciple like him.

We have to reframe evangelism in this. ‘It’s impossible to teach a man what he already knows.’

It’s also hard to convince a man when his salary depends on it.

We think we know what evangelism is. We pass on pieces of propositional knowledge, and  leave it with them. It’s all based on the Great commission- misunderstood.

Jesus said Go therefore and make disciples…

Where do you hear evangelism there?

It’s limited to that too often.

People who share life together naturally share stories, and just loving one another. Bringing out the imago dei which is always there. We disciple PRE ‘conversion’ AND

POST conversion. It’s about genuine loving friendship. Disciple people all along this line…

______________________X____________________________

PRE                                                                        POST

When were the disciples of Jesus ‘born again’? Peter got it wrong and tried to veer Jesus away from the cross days before it happened! according to our theology if he didn’t understand the cross he couldn’t be saved!

Don’t ‘do evangelism’, make disciples.

In the West we have been influenced in our epistemology by Plato. It’s all about ideals. the pursuit of knowledge, where we THINK our way into a new way of ACTING. So you go to conferences, uni, read books. But while we may get new thinking, we’re often stuck with the old behaviors.

The Bible never speculates on ontology (who God is and what He does) the nearest we get is Jn 1 – where it tells us he became FLESH anyway. You only get God when you know him through that. The Bible addresses our BEHAVIOURS first, not our ideas. Jesus takes his guys along with him, so they ACT their way into a new way of thinking. Our minds will catch up with our actions. When you address behaviours, you get new thinking. Dont dumb it down – but bring the action to the thinking.

Instead of listing core beliefs and then seeing how firmly people believe them, why not look at observable core practices.

Eg Michael Frost’s church in Australia, lots of young adults. they developed some core values embodied in behaviour

BELLS x 3 

Be a blessing in some way, could be simple or sacrifical. 1 to someone inside the community, one outside it, and one could go either way. To do 3 acts of blessing a week.

Eat x 3. One with community, one with others. One either way. open your home, your house – act of hospitality. You enfold others in. This invites reciprocity! Doesn’t have to be extravagant. Isn’t it interesting how every covenant in the Bible is linked to a meal. We’ve even made the communion a spooky sacrament. How clever of Jesus, who was accused of being a winebibber and glutton to say ‘this is how you remember me.’

Listen x 3. 3 reflective, contemplative prayer times. However you want to, paying attention 3 x 20 mins = 1 hour a week.

LEARN (x 3). With babies, you feed them on the breast, but there comes a point where they learn to make their own food! And feed others. There are lot of people in church, still on the breast. If you’re still breastfeeding at 20, you’re both going to jail. ‘I am well fed at this church’ = I’m dependent on it. Establish learning communities. Go through the gospels, Matthew to John, over and over. Read in various ways and paces. And/or stop reading rubbish:

porn – for men looking at private parts.

Social porn – for women looking at private lives.

People need to repent of both!!

end every day with prayer of Examen; ‘Where did I work with you?’ And ‘where did I resist you?’ Asks where God has been at work and join with him.

learn from each other

learn from teachers.

SENT – be commissioned by one another. Each person prayed for and sent out.

These common practice shape the community. People will come into the kingdom NATURALLY through these practices.

Check ‘On the Verge’ through this.

So…

List your key values

ask – what would it look like to embody them?

Choose a few, and don’t make it religious. Then make an acronym about it. (BELLS? PARTY?). Then roll it out.

We are deeply formed by the reformation. That has shaped our thinking so much. Luther came out of a panic attack and found a holy God. But not that many people in our modern cities are feeling like that every day. We have to make them feel bad about themselves before we make them feel better about themselves. Guilt is one aspect of our lives, but that’s not ALL. What connects for many more would be the call to have no other gods, and repent of your idols; everything that stops you coming to God.

Ask rather: Do you find sex has become a problem- controlled by that? Are you working and working but never happy?

Worship the real God!

Religion isn’t about us it’s about learning to love God with ALL I am, with my sexuality and possessions. All our vices are virtues gone wrong.

Dealing with idolatry is the basis for disciple-making.

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Apr 21 2012
Bible, Christianity, Discipleship, Faith, Jesus, leadership, Manchester, Men, Religion, Worship

The 5 Questions People Ask Before They’ll Invite A Friend To Your Church

CAN I INVITE MY FRIEND?

Thanks again to Richard Reisling!

Here’s what people ask before hand, before they will ever ask a friend to come along. In other words, if nobody is bringing anyone, here’s why…

Will they feel welcomed? = Hospitality. Whatever your ‘churchmanship/ style’ – the key word would be non -intimidating.

Will they fit in? = Compatibility. People innately pick up on large cultural and social gaps.

Can I feel confident in how the church service will turn out? = Unpredictability. If  those leading the services don’t give some form of consistency (in preaching and worship), I’m not going to invite my friend.

Will my friend get something out of it? = Relevance. How often do your people think, “I wish I’d brought Bill to hear that one…” The more often that happens, the more likely they’ll bring Bill along one week.

Will she understand it? = Comprehension (If an 8 year old can’t understand the sermon, a lot of adults are missing it). That sound too simplistic? Look at the parables – Jesus taught in practical illustrations!

Will anything that can seem strange to the unchurched be explained from scripture? = Interpretation. Are we spiritually sensitive enough that if something happens that would freak people out, some leader the up there will help everyone get a handle on what and why, like Peter did to the Pentecost crowds – ‘This… is that…’

Okay – if you’re involved in leading/ planning church services, give yourself a number on these; 0 —–to ———10. 

Then discuss with others how to improve at least one by a practical change in the next couple of weeks. 

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