Practical insights on discipleship, church maturity, and reproducing leaders – from Mark 8:34.
My ‘Life Verse’, which was once put onto a fabulous collection of photos that summarised key moments from my life given to me when I was 50 is Mark 8:34.
Ten years has gone way too quickly since that collage was made, and I now have a few more scars from the leadership journey (which wounds can become if we give them time), but as I approach the next big birthday the verse still defines me as it has since Zoe who’s now my wife wrote it in a Bible she gave me when I wasn’t even a Christian (I talk about the story in my book The Man You Were Made To Be).
Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.”
Mark 8:34
What grabbed me first time I read it was that there was a distinction between being in the crowd and being a disciple, but even though I knew that right from the start, when I became a church leader it’s as if I forgot it as instead I tried to grow a bigger crowd, rather than make, mature and multiply disciples.
Leaders are accountable to carry an incredible responsibility to the Good Shepherd who in: 1 Peter 5:2 calls us to “shepherd, nurture, guard, and guide” the people entrusted to us.
In recent blogs I’ve shown that I know it’s easy and tempting to focus on the more visible things—numbers of attendance, budgets, or programs. They can be important but I wanted to show they are not the whole picture and we’ve been looking at how to measure what really counts, and I want to focus now on how we can aim build a church that matures and equips people to live on mission, multiplying through a culture of reproduction.
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What Does a Mature Church Look Like?
Back then when I first became a Christian, my view of a mature Christian was one who knew his or her Bible better than I did (which was most people!). You were mature according to how many verses were underlined in your Bible – and especially mature if you knew enough that you could preach (expository in that stable). If you knew some Greek, Hebrew and bible history you were super mature.
But now as the years have passed I know so many who taught it all brilliantly but have fallen away from fellowship with the church or even shipwrecked their faith, so that view of maturity definitely had its limitations.
Of course maturity doesn’t mean perfection. You don’t have to be perfect to be mature. You don’t have to be perfect to be healthy either. I’m not perfect but I’m healthy – thank you Lord!
Ivy is not a perfect church; I’m probably more aware of its weaknesses than anybody, I’m probably responsible for lots of them because I’ve been leading here for 16 years so far. Ivy has some great strengths but still has some weaknesses too. The good news is, God never gives up on us. He knows we are not perfect – but he’s perfecting us by bringing us to maturity.
People say, “We are a mature church.” What are the markers of that then?
Being there in a building a long time doesn’t mean you’re a mature church.
Many of those that have been established the longest are now dying the fastest (though it can take a very long time for a dying church to fully die). Similarly, the length of time you have been a Christian doesn’t automatically mean you’re maturing does it? Some of the meanest and nastiest people I’ve met have been Christians for decades.
Jesus said in Matthew 7:20, “By their fruit, you will recognise them,” which means fruitfulness is one clear evidence of maturity, and that takes time.
One question to assess maturity better is – How are you at reproducing?
Reproducing disciples
Reproducing leaders
Reproducing churches?
- Questions to Ask Yourself:
- – Are we helping people grow in their faith and Christ-likeness?
- – Are we equipping and empowering people for ministry?
- – Are we reproducing—not just disciples, but leaders and churches?
A mature church is committed to growth in love, in depth and breadth, while focused on multiplying for God’s Kingdom.
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‘Big’ Is Not Necessarily Mature.
You know the stories as well as I do here, so I hope we’ve learned this by now – but I had to learn the hard way and I’m not sure as the church rebuilds post Covid whether we are not in danger of making the same mistakes as I did again.
For years (and I hope for many of the right reasons with a world to reach for Jesus), I was on the ‘Bigger is Better’ bandwagon and I found that often it is, but not always at what matters most.
We grew fast, leaving the original building then hiring bigger and better places until we attracted more and more crowds (see Mark 8:34 again!). I didn’t even find it too hard, I’m something of a natural entertainer and I love a crowd!
To grow like that you just have to be a bit better than some other churches around you that have less resources. As you grow you keep getting more resources to do it better (and you get some of the people from those churches with less resources too). Nobody likes to admit that reality and of course we could also point to people coming to Alpha courses etc that were coming to faith, but in both regards then by UK standards, our church grew rapidly because those visible numbers kept climbing.
Ivy got attention beyond the city and even national recognition – that was when I found that size is what was rewarded and recognised – not reproducing. Ivy got featured in a national newspaper four page spread when we were meeting like that. We got a lot of attention as I found if you are a ‘big church leader’ you get invited into various ‘inner rings’ (which CS Lewis warns about here) and to speak at all the ‘big’ conferences, too.
But as my head was getting bigger, thank the Lord he brought me down to size. We had to move out of the cinema we met in because they read the piece in that paper and now wanted three times as much money, and while we overflowed into some other places and another church was planted, I started realising that just because a church is growing bigger congregations doesn’t mean we were making and maturing disciples, who make disciples.
I also realised that while we were adding to our Christian crowds in the big cinema, the ‘little’ churches we’d kind of accidentally planted along the way were doing a lot better at reaching people far from God, and getting them to find their ministry and mission – because the newest branches often bear the most fruit.
Here’s the Reality:
– Size might impress people, but God values reproduction.
– A healthy church doesn’t just grow larger by addition — it multiplies (and as former LAUNCH speaker Neil Cole says, many of the things you do to add work against you multiplying!).
So don’t ask, “How big is our church?” Ask, “How (and what) are we reproducing?” Are you making disciples, raising up leaders, and planting new churches?
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How to Build a Church That Grows to Maturity
However many people are involved, spiritual growth doesn’t just happen, it takes intentionality. Churches need a clear process, consistently applied, to guide them through the stages of discipleship – from new believer to mature follower of Christ who can in turn reach, serve and lead others.
Three Keys to Building a Mature Church:
1. Develop a Clear Discipleship Pathway
– Coming out of that cinema I knew we had to find ways to move people from “come and see,” to “follow Me,” to “go and make disciples”. So we worked on a plan, then we we worked the plan and we rinse and repeat on it all the time now (Find out here about Knowing Growing Going or about Ivy’s Discipleship Pathway in my teaching on RightNowMedia or here.
– Crowds can be fun to preach to, but small groups are where God creates real connection, learning, and transformational growth by doing the Word not just listening, as my buddy Josh Howard says, we may be making more and more foolish builders every Sunday who are hearing Jesus’ words but not putting them into practice!
2. Don’t Be ‘The Minister’ – Empower God’s People
– Ephesians 4 describes a mature church, where there’s unity through service as everyone makes Jesus the model and biblical truth the standard. This maturity only happens when APEST leaders equip everyone to discover, develop and deploy their gifts.
– Create a culture where everyone becomes clear on their call to ministry in the church and place of mission in the world, and evangelism is part of that for every believer. When I first became a Christian it ‘just so happened’ the church ran a short course on how to share your faith. I knew I needed that because otherwise my colleagues in the police would slaughter me! That short course set me up to be able to tell others with grace and answer some basic questions in ways most new believers don’t get equipped for, so they assume ‘I’m no good at this, so I’ll leave it to Billy Bigname’… missing out on the greatest privilege this life affords! My Knowing Growing Going 3 step, 3 session course gives people this first step equipping.
3. Focus on Sending and Reproducing more than Inviting and Retention.
– ‘What you celebrate you replicate.’ The New Testament paints a picture of a church in which every disciple was normally and naturally involved in evangelism – with an expectation of signs and wonders – as much as in Bible study, prayer, and corporate worship.
– Many of us have heard and even preached on the Great Commission’s command to “make disciples” (Matt. 28:18–20), we said everyone should be disciple-makers themselves. But we also need to be clear that “making disciples” necessarily involves helping people who are not yet disciples to become disciples—that is, evangelism, and rather than tell people they should, we must find ways to show them how that happens.
– My friends Dave Ferguson and Alan Hirsch in their amazing book ‘On The Verge’ say that we have to get better at ‘ordaining everyone’ to go and reach the world for Jesus. They have a commission but many are waiting for your permission and whenever I have taken time to respond to a Holy Spirit prompting – to call people up and bless and anoint them to reach their world and claim it for the King and the Kingdom, tears fall. Lives are changed, ministries are birthed, as that royal priesthood of all believers becomes not just a theological possibility but a regal reality that makes hell tremble and heaven rejoice.
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Reproduction – Mark of Maturity
When is an apple tree mature? When it starts producing apples. When is a church mature? When it starts reproducing disciples, leaders, and churches. This is a key focus at LAUNCH every year and I’d love you to join us this year if you possibly can, I think it will be the best ever!
Reproduction is God’s design for His Church. It’s why Jesus spent most of his three year ministry time not preaching to and feeding the crowds of thousands, but investing deeply in a chosen few to go on to change the world in his name. If we want to build churches that glorify God, we need to focus on multiplying everything—disciples, leaders, and churches.
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It’s Time to Grow Up!
Ephesians 4:14-15 says none of us are meant to stay as spiritual infants. I’ve met people in churches who’ve told me they’ve been Christians for 30 years when the truth is they’ve actually been Christian for one year 30 times! As I said maturity is not perfection but God still calls us to grow up in every way, becoming more like Christ as His body, the Church.
This isn’t just about individual growth (all too often what we have talked about and labelled discipleship); it’s about helping every Christ follower we can grow in maturity and mission by multiplication. Not crowd members, but cross carriers who invite others to come and die to live with us for Him!
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Next Steps?
So, where do you start? How about asking yourself (and your team)
– Are we focused on crowd building or disciple making?
– How are we helping people grow into Christ-likeness?
– Do we have a clear plan for discipleship and reproduction? (If not, check out ours and tweak it?)
Let’s keep the conversation going! What steps are you taking to build a mature, reproducing church? Don’t forget to subscribe to the blog and check out my podcast and the Ivy Church website for more resources and tools to help you on your journey.
Take Action
- Subscribe to the blog for more leadership insights.
- Explore resources like “Knowing Growing Going” and Ivy’s Discipleship Pathway.
- Join us at LAUNCH event this year to learn more about building reproducing supernatural churches that are all about Jesus.